Yes, I'm posting about feminism again. Because it went so well last time xD

Can we all just agree to be professional in this thread and not blow it up though? I really don't want to come back and see 10 dislikes and 30 hate messages about how I am a "sexist pig" and stuff like that.

Alright. So here's the question: Is feminism necessary?

Also, I want to point out that this is in the US (and similar countries) ONLY. I am not talking about third world countries where women can't even show their faces.

I personally think that feminism is unnecessary in this day and age. Women can do anything that men can do. They can vote, they can work any job that they want, they can run for office, they can do sports, etc. There are a few things that women can't do that men can, such as walk around outside without a shirt on. Although I really don't think many women would want to do that anyway lol. That being said, men get screwed over in a lot of cases as well.

One example of women actually having more rights than men is when it comes to abortion. The women can abort the child and the father's input is irrelevant. It is the man's child too. Shouldn't he have a say in whether or not the abortion can happen? There are plenty of cases where the man really wants the kid and is willing to take care of it entirely, but the women just doesn't want to give birth so she just decided to get an abortion anyway. Isn't that unfair? A man should have a right to his child, should he not?

Another example is just how society views them. Women may feel like society forces them to be skinny, but men are expected to not only be muscular, but also tall and able to hold a good job. You've heard of a deadbeat dad, but never a deadbeat mom. Why? Because women aren't expected to make money the way that men are. If the husband is jobless he is shamed for it, but if the wife is jobless it isn't considered to be a big deal.

In domestic violence cases women are at an advantage as well. Most of the time if I man hits a woman and a woman hits back the man goes to jail and the woman doesn't. That is how it should be. But usually if a woman hits first and a man hits back they both go to jail. That isn't how it should be. Of course it doesn't always work like that but more often than not women get much more leeway in those types of scenarios than men do.

I could go on but you get the gist of what I am saying. Women may be at a slight disadvantage in certain areas, but they are certainly at a slight advantage in other areas as well. Therefore, I really don't think feminism is necessary anymore.

tgags123 : No, and if one more person says the world is sexist against woman, I am going to kill someone. In this day and age, society is anything BUT sexist against woman. Same case with racism. People just run to the sex/race card when they don't get what they want, and for some stupid reason the rest of society (in some cases even the one being called sexist/racist) feels the need to apologize. I say let 'em whine. Just like a baby, if you don't pay attention to it's whining and crying, it will eventually shut up. Just let them scream their lungs out, eventually they'll stop.

Maybe not in the sense of only having women be equal as men.

Equality is more of what we need, for both males and females. There are still places where women are oppressed and have a disadvantage in, but it's very little places and not as big as it used to be. At the same time, now there are places where men are being oppressed, or have a disadvantage in.

Super Mega Man 568 : I like you lol.

The last part of your post was a little unecessary and harsh though. Like I said, please try to keep your posts civil and professional. That applies for people like you that agree with me too, not just people that disagree.

Super Mega Man 568 :
I think you should note that tgags123 was talking about US and similar countries.

If we're talking about the world, there are many countries in which women are being treated horribly.
Same with racism.

EideticMemory : Saying U.S and similar countries arent racist is also untrue... Every country has racism and some places in the U.S are very racist.

tgags123 : Well, I am going to put my two cents in here, and I say that you all are exactly right. Everyone just wants to play the racist/sexist card if something does not work out the way they want it to. I don't look at any woman as inferior to me. We were all created in the image of GOD, and that is good enough for me. We all have are roles to play, problem is, many people rebel against that. I'm okay with women being doctors or lawyers or whatnot. But I'm sorry, if you're a mom, and you can afford it, you should be taking care of home base. Many don't, and therefore, the family unit is weakened and home is not always looked at as a place of safety. I agree on the domestic violence thing. Whoever starts it is the one that should go to jail, because the other party was simply defending themselves. Men are looked upon as the ones that are supposed to be the breadwinners, and that's right. But here's the thing...if women feel such a desperate need to be considered equal with men. They ought to be treated equally in ALL things. But the problem is, that just does not work. Someone needs to protect their home front, and the man of the house would like to have someone to care for him after a long day of work. Like I said. We all have a role to play. If you don't want to play it, don't blame me for being sexist...PLEASE!

Let me tell you how it is.

Feminism is stupid. I mean, sure, they have their right to think what they want to think, but its stupid.

Lets take the whole thing with Domestic abuse for example. If a guy hits a girl, he goes to jail. If a girl hits a guy, the guy hit her first and goes to jail. In any of these kinds of situations the woman always has the upper hand. All of that to me is just stupid and useless. The laws should be the same for both of the sexes. Why they have these laws is because it is old and all of that.

And on a really probably sensible topic, rape. A woman CAN NOT rape a guy. This makes no sense, and they can only be called for sexual crimes and not rape. These laws are dumb and I personally don't understand them. If someone rapes someone, it is the same crime no matter what the rapist's gender was. And again, it is probable that the guy actually did it and the girl was the victim, like what?

And yes, they do have the same rights. Both genders have the same rights. They get paid the same, they can both vote, can both own land, and all of that. This isn't 1800 anymore, they are just about as the same as you can get. All of that makes no literal sense to me.

And about abortion, we have different views. I feel like that is the woman's decision, 99% of the time. I mean, if the couple wants to have a baby, and one day the woman just goes off randomly and gets an abortion, I find that is just wrong. You should consult in those cases, but if it was accidental sex or any of that thing, then yeah they should be able to get an abortion without consenting the other. If they wanted the child, and she just gets mad and gets rid of it, that is when things get really wrong and just plain stupid.

You sexist pig lol jk. I agree that all of this crap is just completely stupid and blown WAY out of proportion.

And dude, the liquid is oppressed.

Yes and no. There are still inequalities both for men and women in democratic countries like the US. I think the problem is that feminism generally just focuses on addressing inequalities for women such as usually being paid less . And pretty much ignore the problems men face like getting harsher punishment than a woman for committing the same type of crime or how a man would most likely be laughed at if he said he was raped by a woman.

So with that in mind I think it's better if we start looking at the issues both genders face at the same time instead of just focusing on one side exclusively which is what feminism is mostly about.

Barathemos : Your last sentence killed me XDDD

I owe you guys some post likes because a lot of you made some valid points, but I'm out of likes for the day. I'll like them tomorrow.

mourinhosgum :

Yup, I don't think otherwise.

Racism was definitely prevalent where I was born and raised.

It disgusts me when I look back on the things I've heard people say growing up. What disgusts me even more was the fact that I was so used to it at the time that I didn't care about it.

--

As for feminism in the US, I feel like we're at the point where the general consensus is for equality, and that the term "feminist" is outdated and misleading to outsiders.

We should be for equality whether it's for men or women, depending on the issue.

I don't think we should bash "feminists", since nearly everyone here is technically a feminist under it's true definition. To equate "feminism" to the radicals would be to attack a straw-man (or straw-woman in this case ).

Zlinqx : The whole wage gap about how women get paid 25% less and all of that is actually not true. That statistic refers to all men compared to all women in all fields of work. They are not comparing all male teachers and all female teachers, for example, they are comparing the salaries of all men and all women despite what their job actually is. Here is one of many articles that explains it: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-gender-pay-gap-is-a-complete-myth/

tgags123 : Well... maybe it was harsh, but I thought I kept it fairly civil. But all the same, we need to stop letting them bully us. That's what they're doing, bullying us, even blackmailing us. Funny thing is, the people that use the sex/race card are uusually sexist/racist. Anyone else notice that?

P.S. Edited my post.

EideticMemory : Yes, I did note that. I was speaking of the US when I made that post. I realize that in other countries there IS serious sexism and racism going on (in one country, woman aren't allowed to wear pants because they are "inferior" to man). But in this country, none of this is going on.

tgags123 : I am aware of that article and I agree that it has been overblown but it is actually true when comparing people with the same job, it's just that the gap is not as large as it was made out to be. And for the record I don't think it's the biggest issue women face today just took it as an example.

I agree that while trying to calculate an overall wage gap, in the way that they've done, they've misused math.

But when it's for the same job and one consistently gets paid less for the same job as other genders, or a female supervisor is getting paid less than other supervisors AND men working under her (the same with male supervisors, if that happens), I think one should have a right to go to court.

It's also why I was surprised that Lilly Ledbetter wasn't implemented in 2007 when it was first introduced, but all the way in 2009. It shouldn't be particularly controversial.

While sexism is a lot less prevalent, there ARE still sexists (of every gender) so our system should still have measures against unfair treatment.

So... is whoever disliked it going to share their opinion or nah? The point of the debate forum is to debate, not to just dislike every post you disagree with and leave.

I find feminism to be absolutely ridiculous. Like most of the other people in this thread put, there is no reason for women to be feminists at this day and age. Sometimes when I go on Twitter, I see these posts saying that women are always better than men. They just want people to pay attention to them so they can feel important. I honestly find feminist people to be very sexist, and I think it's downright ridiculous. Now, if this was like the early 1900's or something, then I would understand. But, seriously? Come on, people. It's 2015 now. Grow up and stop whining.

I find Second Wave Feminism to be a completely legitimate thing to believe in. We have no reason to not want their goals.

However, Third Wave Feminism needs to burn. It's far from the egalitarian viewpoints we saw in the Second Wave, and is quite literally anti-free speech.

You cannot say anything about people anymore. Simple criticism is not allowed with a Third Wave Feminist. Otherwise, you're mansplaining them, you're an ableist, and you're right wing (somehow they manage to turn it into politics)

It's beyond me how Anita Sarkeesian manages to get millions of dollars from Intel talking about nonexistent problems in video games, and how people manage to take her seriously, and allow her to get such large amounts of money while telling people that all men are responsible for mass shootings, and that the problem would all be gone if masculinity was taken from the masses.

Just utterly ridiculous stuff.

Super Mega Man 568 : "If one more person blah blah, I'm going to kill someone?"  Jesus, dude, you got some anger issues, huh?

The world is sexist against women.  I wrote it here and I even said it out loud in my kitchen eating breakfast.

Okay, go kill someone.  I'm waiting.

You shouldn't say things if you're not going to back them up or they're not true.

Is feminism necessary?

Yes, but it needs a different name.  The original objective of feminism is equality between men and women.  If you think men and women are equal in today's society, or if you think women are treated equally to men in social, political, and business settings, you don't do much reading.

Feminism will be rendered obsolete when sexual violence against women stops.  

Feminism will be rendered obsolete when the U.S. political spectrum is more balanced.  Currently, women make up just over 51% of the population but around 21% of political offices.  That doesn't show much balance and representation.

I'll go on but I know where you guys from.  I was young once and I felt the same way.  After 30+ years experience on earth, I realize that things do suck more for women than for men.  Even in the U.S.

A massive number of feminists compound the problem.  These women are similar to Jihadists who corrupt the original message of Islam and twist it to be violent.  Some women who support feminism feel women can only gain advantage at the expense of men.  They believe it is a zero-sum game.  They are the ones who make feminism look bad.

Look past those women and educate yourselves more on what feminism should be.  Then come back and we'll talk.

Since I am a Christian I'm going to answer the question from that perspective and to answer it properly, one has to define feminism first since it can have different meanings for different people.  Feminism is basically a philosophy that advocates equal rights for women and men on a social, political, economical and other levels.  The early years of feminism was positive since feminists fought for and won suffrage for women.  Today it looks a bit different.  Modern feminists fight for language equality (saying "chairperson" instead of "chairman" even if the person in question is male) and gender equality (redefining femininity and masculinity).  Radical feminists today actively seek to overthrow any hint  of male dominance in society to the point of opposing biblical roles of husbands and wives, defending abortion on demand and promoting lesbianism.  They also deny that there is any difference between men and women, teaching that any perceived differences between the sexes are due solely to social conditioning.  Feminism claims without justification the right to demand respect and equality in every aspect of life.  It is thus based on arrogance and it stands in sharp contrast to what the true Christian is called for - a servant of God first and then to His people.  Modern feminism call women to rise up and rebel against the order that God has given to mankind.  It seeks to impose humanistic values in direct opposition to the Word of God.  Feminism was originally a positive movement as I've stated earlier, but now if focuses on destroying all distinctions in the roles of men and women.  
If you go right back to Genesis in the Bible Eve believed the lie that eating the fruit would bring her wisdom.  She lusted and she took something that was forbidden.  This is the basis for the modern feminist movement.  Women have bought into the lie that feminism will bring them the power and freedom they think they want and deserve.  Unfortunately this promise is empty, for the premise is rooted in pride and pride goes before a fall (Proverbs 16:18).
The bottom line is that it is sin that causes this inequality.  It is sin that causes men to treat women in ways that are meant to demean or objectify them.  It is sin that seeks counterfeit solutions to counteract these inequalities.  The only true cure for inequality is obedience to God's Word.  If men and women would walk in obedience to God's Word, radical feminism would be seen for what it truly is and the harmony that God had intended between a man and a woman would be the result.  So I guess what I'm trying to say is, no, it is absolutely not necessary.

warmaker:  I know this is not Christian Conservatives, but you could've brought your point across just as well without using Jesus' name as a cuss word.  We have kids on this forum and I expected a bit more responsibility from your side.  I would appreciate it if you would refrain from using God's name in vain in the future.  Thanks.