*This thread is mainly aimed at Americans*

I know I said I wasn't going to post in here anymore. What I've decided is that I will post in here, but if the debate starts to get serious I will continue it via PM. I don't know why I'm doing this, I can already see the dislikes and angry replies. But I need something to get me active here again.

Do you say the Pledge of Allegiance in school or at work or at events when you are "supposed" to?

I know that only half of my class says the Pledge at school, and it honestly annoys me. Before you start screaming at me, please allow me to explain myself. The reason we say the Pledge is to show respect for your country, respect for the brave men and women who fought the British to free us and make us this great country, and respect for the men and women who continue to fight to keep it that way. By not saying the pledge you are basically saying that you don't like this country and that you don't want to be here, or at least that's how I see it. If that is the case, then move. Go somewhere else. You are privileged enough to live in one of the most free countries in the world, the least you can do is put your hand over your heart and say 30 words.

I know this website is mainly liberal, and, for the most part, the liberals seem to be the ones that don't say the pledge. Could you tell me why?

(Dislike time yay)

I used to say the pledge alot when it came to school, and still do when it comes to special occasions, but as i went into college i noticed we don't have daily pledge of allegiance like in high school.  I'm not really sure why its like that, it may just be because not everyone wants to pledge to the flag, i'm not really sure why though. It's about showing respect to your country, yeah you cant make people do it, but still you should have  a little respect for your country 
And there really is no law that says you have to pledge, but i still think it is the right then to do every now and then.

I do the pledge. not because I want to, but because I have to.

And no I don't like this country that much and I just see so many eh things with it that I honestly feel more like i'm pledging to the bad side of the country than what should be respected. If I could move, I would move. but I can't. and the other countries are probably just as if not more bad than the US.

*gets shot*

raremew : I don't really expect people to go out of their way to say the pledge, what I mean is when you are at school and they say it over the loudspeaker or you are at a sporting event and they say it or something. I pretty much agree with your post. Forcing people to say it is wrong, but saying it is the respectful thing to do.

Eh, sometimes I do, depending on my mood. It's only because we have to at school though, it's a ritual every morning. I'm used to doing it since Kindergarten, though if I'm in a bad mood, I'll still stand and put my hand on my chest, but won't care enough to say the pledge.

Also, people should dislike your post only if they really don't like it, and it's okay to post here in the debate forum, even though you said you won't anymore. It's your choice.

tgags123 : Yeah your right, it is the right thing to do, and i think everyone should at least participate, but like you said we cant really force people to do what is "right". People tend to do whatever they think of is right to them , but may not be right to us. 

AriaAngelDream : Yeah, but people dislike my posts a lot just because it's me Kind of like what people used to do (and sometimes still do) to Barathemos.

tgags123:


I'm gonna go with Gingercream's post, which I have just finished viewing in another tab.

I'm not sure.

Mostly because I'm not sure the U.S. is a God fearing country anymore. Though lately, it seems to have gotten somewhat better. (Dunno how long it will last though. Hopefully it will. . . )


According to the declaration of Independence:


When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


I have nothing wrong with saying it, so long people know what I actually mean. Who I pledge to specifically my allegiance to first, and foremost is Yahova, and then the United States of America. I don't mind pledging my allegiance to this governing body as a secondary allegiance. But Yahova comes first.

I have not said it in a year. I see no reason to swear fealty to lies on a daily basis. Besides, I definitely won't say anything that includes something noninclusive, such as the phrase "under god". Perhaps if that phrase were removed, I might recite the pledge, but eh. 

"By not saying the pledge you are basically saying that you don't like this country and that you don't want to be here, or at least that's how I see it. If that is the case, then move. Go somewhere else." I don't dislike this country, but this is blatantly ludicrous. Besides, even if someone did want to move, it's expensive, very expensive. It's also a long and arduous process to obtain citizenship elsewhere... unless you enter illegally. Hah, but that's illegal. 

I still stand up when ever the pledge occurs, but I put my hand on the right side of my chest instead of the left. I don't say the pledge, and I won't... Ever. How dare America use the phrase "under god", when such blasphemy is used to swear an oath to a country. There would be a better chance for me to say the pledge if they removed that phrase. Doing so would abolish the tarnished names of Christians in the United States.  

I myself find that the pledge is a silly ritualistic tradition, and that there are far better ways to not just swear allegiance, but to promote the country. Another thing to consider is that when referring to "the country", its used in a context of support for the government by most people. I would not swear allegiance to "my country", but rather to my people. I also agree with your statement on not wanting to be in America, that people who do not appreciate what they have in this nation should not be kept prisoner here, I think that there should be some form of limited government funding for people who wish to "defect" from the united states. I would gladly pay out some taxpayer funds to help someone who has disdain for our country to be moved to a more appropriate place of there choosing.

sop281 : the line "under god" was actually added, and not in the original pledge.

thecrzyguy : what's wrong with Christianity? If this was sarcasm, I apologize for not catching it.

m0ssb3rg935 : I'm saying that the pledge tarnishes Christianity, I myself am a Christian. No sarcasm was intended, for all purposes mentioned.

I usually say it when the time comes to say the pledge. For example, if I'm watching a movie in one of the military bases and it's time to say the pledge, I'll do it. Or at Knott's Berry Farm before they open the gates. What's sad now and days, is that our country doesn't follow God anymore. And look at how it's turned out? I love America, but come on. This country is becoming more idiotic as time flies by. I mean, it IS a free country yes, but letting illegal immigrants in, handing over our military weapons to another country, promoting abortion? I'm not just including JUST Mexico about the whole immigrants thing, I'm including all races-- even my own race (which is asian). To tell you the truth, I don't like living here and I do wish I lived in another country other than this one. Like Canada or Philippines or even Sweden. . . maybe Japan? I don't really know. I'm still under my parents care, so I can't just run away because I'm not fond of this country. That's just plain stupidity. Look at me rambling on. I should end this post right now, before it becomes a whole script for a documentary. Hopefully, I won't cause anybody to hate on me. *readies self for a flame war that won't end very well*

Well, I'm sort of supposed to. So yes, I do. I really hate it when kids are not saying it to just be "cool." I mean, we're high schoolers, grow up! Also, I can't believe people are trying to take the words "under God" from the pledge of allegiance. Being a Christian, this offends me greatly. That's all I have to say.

m0ssb3rg935 : I know, and now that the red scare has been over for some time, I believe that it needs to be removed.
Kuti_Kat : I hate to burst your bubble, but letting illegal immigrants gain amnesty would be more "godlike" than deporting them, and separating families. And the other two points you mentioned are not really idiotic. Even if you don't personally believe in them, a lot can be gained politically and economically for sending off weapons to foreign nations. I don't understand where you're getting the promotion of abortion from, but it's a viable option for many people, and quite oftentimes a necessity. 

Popeye116 : It wasn't there originally. It was doctored in. How about I say that your putting it in offends me as a non-believer? You having it in there is more noninclusive than leaving it out, and you don't need a god in a pledge to a country. You also leave out polytheistic persons. Its just plain disrespectful, and alienating keeping it in the pledge.

I am a strong supporter of the United States.  I'm an American citizen and I fought in the U.S. Marine Corps for six years.  I think we do everything better than everyone else and we're back-to-back World War Champions.

The beauty of this country is people get the right to either say the pledge of allegiance or not say it.  They don't have to.  No is pointing a gun at them and demanding they swear allegiance.  No one is dragging them out of their houses at 2:00 am and executing them because they said mean things about Obama, or Bush, or Clinton, or any level of federal or state politicians.  People can demonstrate and talk about how much they disapprove of our current country and they shouldn't be told to "leave" because they want change.

Wanting change and working towards doing things with respect to the other party line is what this country is all about.  I can stand up and wipe my butt with the flag if I wanted and no one can say anything about it.  That's what makes this country great.

To answer the question: I haven't said the pledge of allegiance in years.  I don't find myself in front of the flag when someone stands to say the pledge.

I do, however, stand at attention during the national anthem  No talking, no singing, no looking, standing at attention.  That will never change.

tgags123 : I recommend you read "Nothing but the Truth" by Avi. It's one of the most brilliant books I've read, and really explores the consequences of actions. It's about a kid who chooses to hum and say the Pledge of Allegiance when told to be silent while it is played over a loudspeaker. This ends up creating quite a stir all over the country. Avi is best known for historical fiction, but occasionally branches out into fields like these. One thing that struck me is that pretty much everybody in the book makes poor decisions. The book leaves a lot of things unexplored, and leaves you to ponder upon what might have happened. The ending is one of the most brilliant, ironic endings ever.

Im not American, however a pledge to the national flag seems very nationalistic and entirely cringeworthy.
Like when I see people wearing flag cloathing (typically usa or uk flags).
Its fine to have pride but when people are that nationalistic I begin asking the difference Between them and North Korean citizens.
Of course America has little incommen with n
Korea. But blind obediance to your nation is a pretty poor attitude.
The uk anthem (the English one really) is much like the us pledge, in that it has you pledging loyalty to the Queen.
Consequently the anthem disgusts me and I would never sing it.
It also previously featured the lines

lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring.
May he sedition hush,
And like a torrent rush,
Rebellious Scots to crush.
God save the Queen!

Nationalism is like salt. It's good in small doses but in large quantities it results in death and destruction.

sop281 :


"but letting illegal immigrants gain amnesty would be more "godlike" than deporting them, and separating families."


God would let illegal immigrants stay after breaking the law?

If they don't want separated from their families, they should not break the law.

"I don't understand where you're getting the promotion of abortion from, but it's a viable option for many people, and quite oftentimes a necessity."


Many of those babies could continue to live. It is just that people are lazy and would rather have an abortion than take care of them. Abortion is not "quite oftentimes a necessity." It is a choice that is made for convenience at the cost of a lesser developed human being, and at the cost of your own family at that if you are the person choosing to have an abortion.



Because something is offensive is a bad argument.

Whether the pledge should have that phrase or not depends on what the rules say, not how people feel about it. This is a Constitutional Republic, and we hold to a standard created by those of whom started this country.