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12-26-24 11:29 PM

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Dinosaurs in the Bible

 

04-17-12 06:50 PM
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mr.pace: if you find a verse in the bible saying that a day to us is a day to God after He created light and darkness-- then I'll believe what you are saying but it just says "one day to the Lord is the same as one thousand years" and one thousand human years is "as one day".
Let me know if I'm getting what you are saying wrong.
mr.pace: if you find a verse in the bible saying that a day to us is a day to God after He created light and darkness-- then I'll believe what you are saying but it just says "one day to the Lord is the same as one thousand years" and one thousand human years is "as one day".
Let me know if I'm getting what you are saying wrong.
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(edited by unknown0s on 04-17-12 06:54 PM)    

04-17-12 07:38 PM
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unknown0s : the point I was trying to get across is how God perceives a day and in a sense 365000 days (one thousand years).  Nothing changes within those days except how we change it and technology, but the things of today were the same as the things of yesterday and of tomorrow.  One 24hr period is the same as 365000 consecutive 24hr periods because nothing is new.

thenumberone :   you'll have to his book  On the Origin of Species in order to find to quote as of right I don't have a direct link to the quote but I will find one.
unknown0s : the point I was trying to get across is how God perceives a day and in a sense 365000 days (one thousand years).  Nothing changes within those days except how we change it and technology, but the things of today were the same as the things of yesterday and of tomorrow.  One 24hr period is the same as 365000 consecutive 24hr periods because nothing is new.

thenumberone :   you'll have to his book  On the Origin of Species in order to find to quote as of right I don't have a direct link to the quote but I will find one.
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04-17-12 09:12 PM
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mr.pace : yeah... then why were you saying all that other stuff? 
mr.pace : yeah... then why were you saying all that other stuff? 
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04-17-12 09:14 PM
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god does not follow our system of time therefore days are incredibly long
god does not follow our system of time therefore days are incredibly long
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04-17-12 10:46 PM
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unknown0s : I want you to know that bible was written in Hebrew, but translated to English when king James Stewart the 1st became king of Britain.  So to get the actually definition of the word day you'd have to us and Hebrew dictionary.
unknown0s : I want you to know that bible was written in Hebrew, but translated to English when king James Stewart the 1st became king of Britain.  So to get the actually definition of the word day you'd have to us and Hebrew dictionary.
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04-18-12 05:04 PM
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mr.pace: Oh I knew that lol But the use of day (even in the Bible's original language: Hebrew) in this context is used in a simile. The word "day" has many interpretations -like in the phrase "in this day and age", day doesn't mean today or anything like that. Day is used as a figure of speech to show that God isn't constrained to time as we perceive it. God was, is, and what will be.
mr.pace: Oh I knew that lol But the use of day (even in the Bible's original language: Hebrew) in this context is used in a simile. The word "day" has many interpretations -like in the phrase "in this day and age", day doesn't mean today or anything like that. Day is used as a figure of speech to show that God isn't constrained to time as we perceive it. God was, is, and what will be.
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04-18-12 09:43 PM
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unknown0s : Yes it is an intrigue contraction.  God created time and thus knows which is which, but in the same sense he created all languages and appointed prophets to write the Bible, so unless we know God's head we can only go on what we got.
unknown0s : Yes it is an intrigue contraction.  God created time and thus knows which is which, but in the same sense he created all languages and appointed prophets to write the Bible, so unless we know God's head we can only go on what we got.
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04-27-12 05:31 PM
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Hoochman : here is the "current" Christian belief dinosaurs existed since the garden of Eden and grew along with everything else but because Noah couldn't build an arc big enough in the current time frame the dinosaurs were forced to fend for themselves.  As for the water animals during the Dino era after the flood they couldn't with the changed conditions and just died.  It's the best theory I've found, hope you like it.
Hoochman : here is the "current" Christian belief dinosaurs existed since the garden of Eden and grew along with everything else but because Noah couldn't build an arc big enough in the current time frame the dinosaurs were forced to fend for themselves.  As for the water animals during the Dino era after the flood they couldn't with the changed conditions and just died.  It's the best theory I've found, hope you like it.
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04-30-12 09:55 AM
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This is very interesting, I am a big Christian but I didn't know that. I know in some places still that are untouched by humans are said to have small dinosaur like creatures. Like those Raptors, but in a small sense most likely vegetarian.
This is very interesting, I am a big Christian but I didn't know that. I know in some places still that are untouched by humans are said to have small dinosaur like creatures. Like those Raptors, but in a small sense most likely vegetarian.
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mr.pace : I would have to disagree with u. Yes I agree that Dinosaurs or "Giant Beast" are mentioned in the bible, but Dinosaurs were long gone before humans came. Plus do u honestly believe that Creation took place during 6  24Days. in my Opinion I think creation might have taken billions of years to become what it is today.
mr.pace : I would have to disagree with u. Yes I agree that Dinosaurs or "Giant Beast" are mentioned in the bible, but Dinosaurs were long gone before humans came. Plus do u honestly believe that Creation took place during 6  24Days. in my Opinion I think creation might have taken billions of years to become what it is today.
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04-30-12 03:29 PM
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Live beside man, probably not, but in the bible? Yes. I am very skeptical that dinosaurs just did not eat humans and wipe us out when we were "living beside them". I do believe in the bible, and what it says, as I am very religious, God over everything. And I just don't know that we lived with dinos, I still believe we lived in seperate times!
Live beside man, probably not, but in the bible? Yes. I am very skeptical that dinosaurs just did not eat humans and wipe us out when we were "living beside them". I do believe in the bible, and what it says, as I am very religious, God over everything. And I just don't know that we lived with dinos, I still believe we lived in seperate times!
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rcarter2 : You are a genius. I totally agree with your statement
rcarter2 : You are a genius. I totally agree with your statement
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04-30-12 04:03 PM
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Noobolicious : The problem with theories suggesting Dinosaurs and Humans coexisted is that there is evidence that suggests other wise compared to the next to no evidence backing up those theories. Even though our modern dating methods are refuted by some Christians, there still is a ton of evidence not related to those methods. Most of this other evidence is based upon what part of the  geological strata the fossils are found in. Naturally, the stratum are aged from top to bottom with the top being more recent than those below it. In other words you can't have a layer of dirt on top of a layer of rocks without the rocks being there prior so the dirt could be on top of it. This is a very basic concept that I expect even the most oblivious believer to grasp, but I also expect  it to be resisted and challenged as it goes against their beliefs. 
Noobolicious : The problem with theories suggesting Dinosaurs and Humans coexisted is that there is evidence that suggests other wise compared to the next to no evidence backing up those theories. Even though our modern dating methods are refuted by some Christians, there still is a ton of evidence not related to those methods. Most of this other evidence is based upon what part of the  geological strata the fossils are found in. Naturally, the stratum are aged from top to bottom with the top being more recent than those below it. In other words you can't have a layer of dirt on top of a layer of rocks without the rocks being there prior so the dirt could be on top of it. This is a very basic concept that I expect even the most oblivious believer to grasp, but I also expect  it to be resisted and challenged as it goes against their beliefs. 
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smotpoker86 : I Never said it was a good theory just said it was the best I've found personally I do believe dinosaurs lived before man and that era was in the bible between making animals and the making of Adam. This I think would help also explain the space in the mankind development theory after all maybe God just saw those cavemen and said, hey I can top that.
smotpoker86 : I Never said it was a good theory just said it was the best I've found personally I do believe dinosaurs lived before man and that era was in the bible between making animals and the making of Adam. This I think would help also explain the space in the mankind development theory after all maybe God just saw those cavemen and said, hey I can top that.
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04-30-12 08:51 PM
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Ha!  Dude, this is totally a great thread to start a discussion.

Many people are completely closed to the idea of Creationism due to formal education and the Theory of Evolution.  It is seldom that I hear people actually use passages in scripture to use as almost an historical record in regards to biological evolution, but Bravo!  This is a very interesting topic to ponder and post about. 

I'm not necessarily saying that I think this is fact, but discussing the possibility of this as reality is very interesting.  No one ever (in an academic setting, anyway) even considers that Creationism is a theory that could hold scientific merit.  In the same way that evolution has some theories with scientific merit, and many unsubstantiated presumptions...I think that the same or very similar could be said of using creationism to explain the world. 

I love that you brought up dragons, and aside from the bible, the dragon has been a symbol since ancient times.  They are peculiarly similar to dinosaurs, aren't they?  I don't think we ought to look for winged carnivores for proof, though.  I think that perhaps artists were told stories of other people's encounters, and the images we have all seen are simply composites of various descriptions (this is, of course, on the basis that the Bible can be used as a reliable historic record.)  Imagine hearing of a pterodactyl and an alligator.  There is some evidence written here in the Bible, but of course, many holes and not able to be proven as fact.  As far as the depth of fossilized remains and carbon dating....now I'm not a historian, anthropologist, philanthropist, forensic scientist, archaeologist or whoever else might be an expert on the subject-but as I understand it, Carbon is the basis for life in this planet.  It has four valence electrons which very easily bond to Oxygen and Hydrogen atoms to create polar molecules.  These polar molecules enable the flow of electricity through molecular matter, enabling electrochemical energy and thus, life.  I can only suppose that Carbon dating is based upon an algorithm, or exponential function (presumably similar to Newton's Law of Cooling) of how readily and to what extent all of the molecules present in a sample have bonded with other elements.  I think that this, too, could be subject to error and render it a theory as opposed to fact...

With regards to the depth beneath the soil, the dinosaurs were presumed to be killed off by a meteor hitting the Earth, disrupting weather patterns, killing by impact and...fallout.  Lots and lots of fallout.  Is it possible that scientists are given an average depth to expect to be yay deep as a rate or constant given normal levels of erosion and accumulation and that an event like a meteor strike may very well throw enough fallout into the atmosphere to render the figures used inaccurate?  And as for Carbon dating...if my assertions are true about how the science works, then I have to bring up that within systems of reactants, there is energy and pressure.  In some reactions, like bonding, pressure can greatly affect rates of reaction between the reagents-and in the universal fact that energy may only be transferred and never lost or destroyed...this means that it would affect rates of reaction-rendering rates used in determining age based off of the before mentioned technology inaccurate as well.

I'm not asserting that this is fact, and if anyone else knows more specific or accurate information about how things like carbon dating are calculated-I'd love to know.  I'm just using some scientific reasoning to dispute the other theory if we're to use the Bible and ancient cultural texts as historically accurate texts. 


Ha!  Dude, this is totally a great thread to start a discussion.

Many people are completely closed to the idea of Creationism due to formal education and the Theory of Evolution.  It is seldom that I hear people actually use passages in scripture to use as almost an historical record in regards to biological evolution, but Bravo!  This is a very interesting topic to ponder and post about. 

I'm not necessarily saying that I think this is fact, but discussing the possibility of this as reality is very interesting.  No one ever (in an academic setting, anyway) even considers that Creationism is a theory that could hold scientific merit.  In the same way that evolution has some theories with scientific merit, and many unsubstantiated presumptions...I think that the same or very similar could be said of using creationism to explain the world. 

I love that you brought up dragons, and aside from the bible, the dragon has been a symbol since ancient times.  They are peculiarly similar to dinosaurs, aren't they?  I don't think we ought to look for winged carnivores for proof, though.  I think that perhaps artists were told stories of other people's encounters, and the images we have all seen are simply composites of various descriptions (this is, of course, on the basis that the Bible can be used as a reliable historic record.)  Imagine hearing of a pterodactyl and an alligator.  There is some evidence written here in the Bible, but of course, many holes and not able to be proven as fact.  As far as the depth of fossilized remains and carbon dating....now I'm not a historian, anthropologist, philanthropist, forensic scientist, archaeologist or whoever else might be an expert on the subject-but as I understand it, Carbon is the basis for life in this planet.  It has four valence electrons which very easily bond to Oxygen and Hydrogen atoms to create polar molecules.  These polar molecules enable the flow of electricity through molecular matter, enabling electrochemical energy and thus, life.  I can only suppose that Carbon dating is based upon an algorithm, or exponential function (presumably similar to Newton's Law of Cooling) of how readily and to what extent all of the molecules present in a sample have bonded with other elements.  I think that this, too, could be subject to error and render it a theory as opposed to fact...

With regards to the depth beneath the soil, the dinosaurs were presumed to be killed off by a meteor hitting the Earth, disrupting weather patterns, killing by impact and...fallout.  Lots and lots of fallout.  Is it possible that scientists are given an average depth to expect to be yay deep as a rate or constant given normal levels of erosion and accumulation and that an event like a meteor strike may very well throw enough fallout into the atmosphere to render the figures used inaccurate?  And as for Carbon dating...if my assertions are true about how the science works, then I have to bring up that within systems of reactants, there is energy and pressure.  In some reactions, like bonding, pressure can greatly affect rates of reaction between the reagents-and in the universal fact that energy may only be transferred and never lost or destroyed...this means that it would affect rates of reaction-rendering rates used in determining age based off of the before mentioned technology inaccurate as well.

I'm not asserting that this is fact, and if anyone else knows more specific or accurate information about how things like carbon dating are calculated-I'd love to know.  I'm just using some scientific reasoning to dispute the other theory if we're to use the Bible and ancient cultural texts as historically accurate texts. 


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Kefka :  Although this topic is specifically about dinosaurs walking with man, it is much deeper than that and deals with the creation stories of the Abrahamic religions.  There is next to no mention of dinosaurs/dragons in the bible, aside from in revelations where it mentions dragons a handful of times.  From a critical viewpoint revelations has many problems. It is a later writing being written much later than those supposedly written by Jesus' contemporaries. The fact that the Council of Nicea had to contemplate whether or not to keep the much earlier Apocalypse of Peter or take Revelations in its stead discredits any claims of divinity and truth in the scripture.

Because of my critical view, when I read "Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth." in revelations I take it with a grain of salt.  It may be possible for a dragon to knock 1/3 of the stars to earth if the earth is flat and the stars all attached to a firmament right above the earth, but it sure as hell isn't possible in the universe we now know and understand much much better. If the authors description of the dragon's actions is false, than why should I think that the dragon isn't entirely made up? 

I am not sure if pressure can alter the Carbon half-life or not but I would assume it wouldn't be that complex to figure out. Scientists could measure the half-life of an element in two controlled settings, one at normal atmospheric pressure and one under extreme pressure. However they don't use Carbon when dating dinosaurs because it can only determine the age up to 60,000 years. Carbon dating is accurate as it has been used to accurately date numerous more recent items but it just can't go back far enough to test dinosaurs. Likely, uranium is tested in stead of carbon but I am no expert in the area. 

Scientists may very well have techniques to determine where the most recent (as in died near the extinction) dinosaurs are located, but you do realize that dinosaurs lived for over 200 million years? Also the world likely wasn't  one uniform land mass... it would have been similar to today with many different sections of the geologic strata at surface. What I mean is dinosaurs aren't all found buried in one type of material. If the creation story is to be believed than we should be finding human fossils in all of the layers organisms are found in. That is not the case as human remains are only found in relatively recent strata.
Kefka :  Although this topic is specifically about dinosaurs walking with man, it is much deeper than that and deals with the creation stories of the Abrahamic religions.  There is next to no mention of dinosaurs/dragons in the bible, aside from in revelations where it mentions dragons a handful of times.  From a critical viewpoint revelations has many problems. It is a later writing being written much later than those supposedly written by Jesus' contemporaries. The fact that the Council of Nicea had to contemplate whether or not to keep the much earlier Apocalypse of Peter or take Revelations in its stead discredits any claims of divinity and truth in the scripture.

Because of my critical view, when I read "Then another sign appeared in heaven: an enormous red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on its heads. Its tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth." in revelations I take it with a grain of salt.  It may be possible for a dragon to knock 1/3 of the stars to earth if the earth is flat and the stars all attached to a firmament right above the earth, but it sure as hell isn't possible in the universe we now know and understand much much better. If the authors description of the dragon's actions is false, than why should I think that the dragon isn't entirely made up? 

I am not sure if pressure can alter the Carbon half-life or not but I would assume it wouldn't be that complex to figure out. Scientists could measure the half-life of an element in two controlled settings, one at normal atmospheric pressure and one under extreme pressure. However they don't use Carbon when dating dinosaurs because it can only determine the age up to 60,000 years. Carbon dating is accurate as it has been used to accurately date numerous more recent items but it just can't go back far enough to test dinosaurs. Likely, uranium is tested in stead of carbon but I am no expert in the area. 

Scientists may very well have techniques to determine where the most recent (as in died near the extinction) dinosaurs are located, but you do realize that dinosaurs lived for over 200 million years? Also the world likely wasn't  one uniform land mass... it would have been similar to today with many different sections of the geologic strata at surface. What I mean is dinosaurs aren't all found buried in one type of material. If the creation story is to be believed than we should be finding human fossils in all of the layers organisms are found in. That is not the case as human remains are only found in relatively recent strata.
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smotpoker86 :
Very good point to contradict the idea of people coexisting with the dinosaurs.  If there were people living at the same time of the dinosaurs, and they were all killed off by some catastrophic event like a meteor collision, then we should expect to find human remains alongside them. 

A pretty simple deduction to make, really.  But an essential piece of evidence for these claims.  I wish I'd have thought of that and brought it up in my last post.  Awesome name by the way!






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smotpoker86 :
Very good point to contradict the idea of people coexisting with the dinosaurs.  If there were people living at the same time of the dinosaurs, and they were all killed off by some catastrophic event like a meteor collision, then we should expect to find human remains alongside them. 

A pretty simple deduction to make, really.  But an essential piece of evidence for these claims.  I wish I'd have thought of that and brought it up in my last post.  Awesome name by the way!






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rcarter2:  There is no disruption of my religion here.  Now to business.  I'm going to try to answer all of the these things separately by the Bible.  The Book of Genesis answers most of the questions if not all the questions we have.  I am going to start from creation to the dragon philosophy that I have inquired and than I will close.


JigSaw :
catfight09 :
warmaker :
and others.


   Gen. 1:1-5  In the beginning God created heaven and earth. And the earth was without form, and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And God said let there be light and there was light. And God saw the light and saw that is was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.  And  God called the light Day and the darkness he call Night.  And the evening and the morning were the first day.

   This was the first phase  of creation of the modern time frame.  This states that in the first day God created the 24 hour time period.  When it says that the evening and the morning were the first day, it shows that rotation around the sun had already been established.  The  Lord God had made it so that the Sun may shine during the day and moon during the night.  When it says he divided the light from the darkness, it states that this was the start of the first transitional period between night and day.  The Hebrew word day meaning 24 hours also adds verification.

   Gen.  1:6-8  God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide waters from waters.  And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament:  and it was so.  And God called the firmament Heaven.  And the evening and the morning were the second day. 

   This goes on to show of earth and Heaven.  This tells us how the waters were made into rivers, lakes, ponds, seas, and oceans.  It also covers yet another 24 hour day.

   Gen.  1:9-13 And God said, let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto place, and let the dry land appear:  and it was so.  And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of waters he called seas:  and God saw that is was good.  And God said let the earth bring forth grass the herd yielding seed and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth.  And the earth brought forth grass and herd yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself after his kind:  and God saw that is was good.  And the evening and the morning were the third day.

   This was the third phase of creation......

I've tired out for the day but I will post the the rest by and by. 

Jigsaw your general question will be answered in one of my later post.
rcarter2:  There is no disruption of my religion here.  Now to business.  I'm going to try to answer all of the these things separately by the Bible.  The Book of Genesis answers most of the questions if not all the questions we have.  I am going to start from creation to the dragon philosophy that I have inquired and than I will close.


JigSaw :
catfight09 :
warmaker :
and others.


   Gen. 1:1-5  In the beginning God created heaven and earth. And the earth was without form, and void and darkness was upon the face of the deep.  And God said let there be light and there was light. And God saw the light and saw that is was good; and God divided the light from the darkness.  And  God called the light Day and the darkness he call Night.  And the evening and the morning were the first day.

   This was the first phase  of creation of the modern time frame.  This states that in the first day God created the 24 hour time period.  When it says that the evening and the morning were the first day, it shows that rotation around the sun had already been established.  The  Lord God had made it so that the Sun may shine during the day and moon during the night.  When it says he divided the light from the darkness, it states that this was the start of the first transitional period between night and day.  The Hebrew word day meaning 24 hours also adds verification.

   Gen.  1:6-8  God said let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide waters from waters.  And God made the firmament and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament:  and it was so.  And God called the firmament Heaven.  And the evening and the morning were the second day. 

   This goes on to show of earth and Heaven.  This tells us how the waters were made into rivers, lakes, ponds, seas, and oceans.  It also covers yet another 24 hour day.

   Gen.  1:9-13 And God said, let the waters under the heavens be gathered together unto place, and let the dry land appear:  and it was so.  And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of waters he called seas:  and God saw that is was good.  And God said let the earth bring forth grass the herd yielding seed and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth.  And the earth brought forth grass and herd yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself after his kind:  and God saw that is was good.  And the evening and the morning were the third day.

   This was the third phase of creation......

I've tired out for the day but I will post the the rest by and by. 

Jigsaw your general question will be answered in one of my later post.
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I am the prince of peace. Lord of Light mr.pace.


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warmaker
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mr.pace : Quoting a single work isn't answering the question.  You're using one source, written by people, changed and altered over time, rewritten, lost, found, and without any true substantiation.

Who wrote the Bible?  People.  People who are fallible and make mistakes.  How do we know God even directed them to do it?  It is a man-made thing and therefore full of errors.  There are different Bibles that say different things.  How can you say it has all the answers when the King James Bible has different tones, ideas, and expressions than other Bible versions. 


Science, on the other hand, has evidence, is agreed upon by many different people of many different cultures and backgrounds.  Their unifying force is math, which IS infallible.  2 + 2 is the same everywhere you go.  What God said in the book of Ruth isn't always the same.

I select consistency.


mr.pace : Quoting a single work isn't answering the question.  You're using one source, written by people, changed and altered over time, rewritten, lost, found, and without any true substantiation.

Who wrote the Bible?  People.  People who are fallible and make mistakes.  How do we know God even directed them to do it?  It is a man-made thing and therefore full of errors.  There are different Bibles that say different things.  How can you say it has all the answers when the King James Bible has different tones, ideas, and expressions than other Bible versions. 


Science, on the other hand, has evidence, is agreed upon by many different people of many different cultures and backgrounds.  Their unifying force is math, which IS infallible.  2 + 2 is the same everywhere you go.  What God said in the book of Ruth isn't always the same.

I select consistency.

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