So As of today another Staff Member has won the Tour De vizzed.


Simply put  it's getting ridiculous to the point were TDV can be classed as a Staff Only Competition for the most part.    
There used to be a time way back in 2013 were trusted members or regular members like IN008 had won but now that's a miss for the most part.



So I was thinking of some new jerseys to encourage Standard Member Competition. The Staff Rank has won the TDV For 2 years straight now, so If we had a General Member Banner or something along the lines of that. Regular members could have a shot at competition without feeling left out.

Pretty much all of the Staff Members have Advantages over Standard Members too, and in the Tour-DE vizzed setting that really takes effect especially during the Green and Red Jersey. 


Not to mention Domination is too much a Key Factor in the TDV.   During day 25 you might as well stop competing because there's no bonus points to help members catch up to the gap that the leaders have.


So my suggestions are simple:
1.  Bonus points towards the end of the TDV to prevent total domination over the competition.   Honestly,   If the TDV is meant to be a competitive post and CP contest then why is dominating a thing?
2.  A General Member Banner so normal members could compete against each other.  

Thoughts?

I do agree what you have to say here.....I mean there has bee suggestions based on what you have been saying, but I don't think a lot of the ideas were used, and some where. There are some staff members who do what they can not to abuse. Since well it depends on each staff role that staff has, that would have the better advantage of what. I remember that year of 2013. And another thing. It depends on the strength, and weaknesses that people have which also works. For like an example if you are really good at come up with interesting threads or making stories, poems. People say its unfair, but if people look the other way and see what they can do. Like what they have advantage wise then they would be able to compete very fierce. Its not all staff members intention to win. Only one wanted to win which I dunno even as of why. Anyways normal, and trusted members can have fair advantages. Its how it is laid out for them, and what their strength lies in for that. I hope you understand where I am getting at with explanation.  '-'

Eniitan :

Oh I completely understand.     I'm not saying the Competition is unfair by any means, it's just most of the time it tends to be too one sided.


And there's a definitive lack of Pure Competition.   Staff has won the Tour De Vizzed from 2014 to current date.

If that's not evidence Enough the white banner has defeintly taken a bad toll from the lack of non-staff competiting.    Only 4 points during the summer TDV.
And  to put the nail in the Coffin,   All of the Trusted, Normal and Regular Members couldn't even pull out 300 points.  If It wasn't for me spreeing at the last minute yesterday we wouldn't have gotten there.  

That end of it's self is saying a lot in regards to the tour de vizzed.     And once again,  Vets and Staff came out on top.


If you're better at making threads stories and poems then that's a given fact,    It's something your good at and you use at your advantage.  If some find that unfair, then that's their problem.

People can Look the Other way, but a lot of the time that's usually never the case.   As it'll still take you a while to catch up to the leaders, typically on Day 25 is the day you can't keep up with the leading ranks in the Overall section.

Now if there was any Bonus points given out on the last days of the month for those that aren't in the top 5, that could help the overall competitive factor in the Tour De Vizzed as users

I'm not disagreeing with your point of view Enii,  I'm just trying to prove my point of view and be realistic as possible here.

Here's my suggestion-

1. Staff actions should NOT count towards the green jersey. That way, staff members do NOT have an unfair way to move up the green jersey standings.

2. Everyone should have the same daily limit just for the green jersey. It won't affect the CP they earn but if they pass the common daily limit for all ranks, they no longer gain green jersey actions.

I'll admit that staff do have an unfair advantage in green, since there are many actions that non-staff do not have. But as for red, staff actions don't count for red already (I think).

I agree that there should be a non-staff banner as well, to encourage more non-staff to compete. 

SuperCrash64 : Nah.....I understand lol. Your looking at it from another different approach. I'm just saying others who have that sort of being able to do it and not just me. Yes we are in a way lacking in that department for new members to compete since it can easily discourage them. Its always good to bring out concerns, and see what ideas people can bring out to help making the tdv better for others.

First things first: this is not 2013. The board isn't as active, and beyond staff members there really isn't anybody active enough.

You see, staff are used to regular activity all year long. If there were TdV stats in all months, we staff would continue to rule over non-staff users. That is the big problem: no normal member is active enough to stand a chance.

To win the TdV you need frenetic activity during 30 days straight, and that is something that new members must acclimatize to through sheer experience around the site. Therefore, we need to encourage them to be more active all year long so they play on equal grounds with us, but I doubt there's something else we can do than what we're already doing.

We've seen people battle fiercely and earning 2nd overall by participating in just two jerseys. Normal members have a shot at three, because Red isn't much of an issue even with the increased daily limits we staff have. If a non-staff member had the time and pace to participate actively, they can have a shot at the overall win. But they don't have the time nor the pace, and that's out of our reach to change.

Mohammedroxx3 : I wouldn't mind that change in Green, honestly. It's a bit silly that restricted actions count towards a competition most of us don't even aim at.

Staff actions do count for Red and Green. If I've scored points at Red and Green every week of July it's thanks to being a System Manager. It seems that not making those actions count towards Red wouldn't allow you to earn CP and therefore most of the staff wouldn't be able to make quota, it's the only reason I see to justify this situation.

Well I remember way back when the TDV had more to do with the "forum" posting side of the board  rather than contribution point's with that said why not get rid of the contribution point aspect after all the TDV is meant to be a forum posting competition,(while we have the VCS competition for Contribution point actions) the way I see it the red and green jersey should go back to what they were, green being most thread replies in under an hour and red being whatever red was (i don't remember) , but honestly the whole contribution point action aspect of the competition is unfair considering your user rank determines how much Viz and cp you get from the action and how much of a "cp" action you can do per day, so depending on your user rank your either at a disadvantage or advantage and quit honestly it defeats the purpose of a posting forum  competition to have Contribution Points as a part of it and not to mention everyone was on equal footing when it was just a posting forum competition because if you posted to much in restricted forums you got DQ'd.

Mohammedroxx3 :

1. Even if Staff actions didn't count towards the green jersey, staff members would still have the advantage because they have a higher cp action limit. Which is why I think that all actions, even actions that go over the CP limit, should count for the green jersey. Some staff actions could probably not count (character detail adding, content adding which is already not counted for green, and removing ebay listing comes to mind), but most other staff only actions aren't useful for getting a lot of actions. The problem is more with the cp action limit, which is why I want actions that go over the limit to also count for the green jersey.

2. I really hate this idea personally, since it effectively kills competition. There are no records to break that way, and if multiple people reach the CP action limit, then the winner is decided by overall post count, which means that's it's biased towards people who's posted a lot, which is not what the green jersey is about. Even if it was increased to a number like 1,000 or even 500, trusted below don't have a high enough cp action limit to reach either number.

The green jersey does need to be changed, but I honestly don't like either of those ideas, no offense. I like mine better (predictably :p).

EX Palen : CP from non-staff staff only (edited to fix that mistake :c) actions DON'T count for the red jersey. The thing with content adding is that normal members can add content too- the content just needs to be approved first before the non-staff member can get any CP from it.

Divine Aurora : The VCS is gone and never coming back again. (At least based off of what I have heard)

And the old red jersey was the biggest post of the day. 

The main reason (if I recall correctly) for the change in the green and red jersey was because people wanted it so the TDV would be even more contributing to the site (and possibly less spammy, but the blue still exists so....).

I think people complained about how the green jersey is like a spam jersey in a way. (I mean, what's the point of the most 30+ word posts in an hour? Not very contributing)

As for red, I'm not sure what was wrong with it, but I guess the most CP is more contributing than the biggest post (which might just be a story, a rant... etc) I guess the change in red/green makes up for the fact that the CP VCS no longer exists. The blue is like the posting VCS.

To be honest, I kind of miss the old red jersey, but that's just me. (because it was my TDV specialty I think) 
EDIT: Err ZeeTee posted at the same time I was making my post. Didn't see that.

Mohammedroxx3 : What do you mean no more VCS, the VCS coding is still in the site and can be accessed from the control panel(not to mention it's still showing real time results), and I think I've realized something, nobody's going to be happy no matter what lol, with that said no amount of rules changes can change the fact that people are going to complain no matter what but that's another story, anyways the case could be made that the competition in general is a spam fest, I'm just saying it being a forum posting competition the jersey's should have something to do with "posting" and nothing to do with actions in the RGR. But all this aside it still doesn't change the fact that Staff has a clear advantage and well generally anyone has an advantage over anyone that isn't at equal power levels. But I will say this one last statement you can at any user level beat a staff member at contribution point actions and getting more in a day than them, you just have to work a little harder and smarter with what actions you choose to do.

ZeeTee : You completely missed #2 in my post. I said EVERYONE should have the same daily limit (just for the TDV).

For example, the daily limit for elite+ will be the same as the daily limit for Trusted Members. I'm not saying that the actual daily limit should be changed during the TDV, but it would only affect what counts in the green jersey competition. 

If multiple people hit the daily limit for the same action, they can just do another action that they have not yet hit the daily limit for. This is honestly more fair.

If I really wanted to, I can add 300 Graphics ("graphic adding") and gain 300 green jersey actions from that. Meanwhile, someone who is non-staff can't gain 300 actions the same way, thus giving me an unfair advantage. 

Divine Aurora : Even though the VCS is in the control panel, the competition itself does not exist. No one hosts (and makes a thread) for it anymore.

Mohammedroxx3 : I do know that you meant everyone have the same daily limit during the TdV. And that's what I was responding to. Sorry if the wording was confusing or whatever, but I'll repeat what I said.

Having everyone have a LIMIT on what they can do in the green jersey kills competition in that jersey. The limit would have to be a limit that trusted's or below can reach because actions that go over the CP action limit doesn't count for the green jersey. Problem is, the CP action limit for trusteds is like below 300 actions a day. The winner of the green jersey often gets 400 or more actions. See the problem?

What if multiple people reach the daily limit for all of the actions? Users can't just create another action :p.

And I believe that Graphic Adding is under content adding, which is already not accounted for in the green jersey/

ZeeTee : No, Graphic adding DOES count towards the green jersey (but not the red). It's completely different from game content. I'm a system manager so I would know. (no offence) 

The thing is... Trusted members should stand a chance in the green jersey competition. The only way to NOT make the green jersey a "staff only jersey" is to give everyone equal limits. 

So the only 2 options are to higher the trusted member daily limit to the staff member daily limit or lower the staff member daily limit to trusted member daily limit.

I think it is much safer to just make it so that everyone has a trusted member daily limit for the green jersey. (but that only counts for the green jersey action, not the actual CP you earn. That way, it will not interfere with making the staff quota)

I never said create another action, I just said they can do a DIFFERENT action that exists (oh, there's no way someone will reach the daily limit for all actions). lolol

ZeeTee : Is it really THAT EASY to reach the daily limit for EVERYTHING??? lol. No way... Maybe Zlinqx but everyone can easily do that? I bet the chances of that happening are rare to nothing. (but then again I never tried so I may be wrong)

Removing the limit, as well as not making staff actions count toward the green will make the competition more fair and balanced but... That will just be insane to imagine. But I would want to see Davideo7 just try that for one day for the lolz and see what happens. (Maybe it might not be too bad)

But still... People won't earn CP/Viz with your idea (after hitting the normal daily limit) and so much CP/Viz will go to waste. That's why everyone having the same daily limits for each action makes more sense to me, but that limit should not affect the actual CP earned (to not get in the way of anyone's quota).

Mohammedroxx3 :
Nah It's triune..  he probably does it everyday XD

Speaking of the older green jersey.. it's about the same as the current blue one as we have now

ZeeTee : You just said the very first change we should make in the TdV: tie breakers decided for what the jersey theme is. Yellow should have a tie breaker based on Post Experience, and Red should have a tie breaker based on CP. I don't know about Green, but we must figure something out, because the TdV doesn't focus exclusively on posts anymore so deciding a tie breaker just by posts is a thing of the past.

And well, moha already answered the System Manager advantage, so nothing else I can add  there.

Mohameddroxx3: Increasing the limit for non-staff can be troublesome. People have spammed actions before, and an increasing limit would only incentivate that spam to happen more frequently. If there's any change to be made, then we should place stricter limits on the people who have an advantage, to ensure spam is kept to a minimum.

Mohammedroxx3 :

I just realized that like 75 of the actions for the trusteds 200+ is from posting. And the red and green jersey is supposed to be different from the blue and yellow so :/. The posting would probably take up most of someone's time lel. And last time I got green I had like 700+ actions I believe, so yes getting 200 or more actions is easy :p. Maybe not with the 75 posts though (highest posts in a day I've ever reached is 57 xp).

People WILL earn CP and Viz with my idea- unless they go over the limit. Which means that they'll still earn green points, and honestly actions that are good for green don't give you much cp or Viz in the first place (character adding/editing used to be an exception but that got nerfed. Twice). I do understand what you mean though. Also gtg right now so will respond tomorrow :p.

ZeeTee : But "Post" only increases your green jersey actions by 1... Multiple posts can't increase your green jersey actions more than 1 a day. For example, if someone makes 75, 90, or 30 (or any number of) posts in one day, that would only increase their green jersey actions by 1. 

Red and Green is already completely different from blue and yellow, unless you post a review or lots of multiple long posts (which would probably give a boost for red). But there's nothing wrong with that. 

And with your idea of no limit, it is guaranteed 100% that people will go WAY OVER the daily limit, which is why I don't like the idea.  

EX Palen : Exactly. That's what I said. It's much safer to lower the limit for everyone rather than higher the limit for everyone.

SuperCrash64 : I think the edge that staff+ members have is pretty apparent. Something needs to be done about that if we want more competition in the TdV. About your suggestions: For number 1, I don't think that's fair. Why? Well, I don't think being behind in the TdV should be rewarded. It's not fair to the leader that's destroying everyone *cough cough* COX *cough cough*. For number 2, I think that's a pretty good idea to have a member for regular member (trusted and below I assume). 


I have an idea that will probably get some "RDAY THAT'S BS STFU", but why not? So if you don't want to change the actions limits and stuff, you could give a staff member half, or whatever you want, of the point they would get. So if a staff+ got the green jersey, then they get 2.5 points. If they finished 5th, they'd get 0.5 points. This would lower the impact of the green jersey a little bit, but is still enough to give an edge if someone dominates it. 

Also, there needs to be some sort of incentive for TdV, besides flame and/or glory. The biggest problem is that people aren't motivated to try and compete. A perfect example of this was yesterday, when I, who had only gotten 1 point this whole TdV, suddenly got 7 points, I think. Why? Because there was incentive yesterday. If our team got 19 points, Furret would do something funny. I'm not encouraging forcing people to compete, but I think motivation is more of an issue than the issue with the green jersey.