I don't believe there are aliens or other earths or alternate universes
or dimensions. Heaven, and the realm of God are not universes or
dimensions but something completely different. The elements of life are
just tiny bits and pieces of what God's reality is like. What if the
entire universe is not meant to be taken literally, but everything in
itself is a metaphor that describes God? Why is there only one God? Why
is there only one planet full of life out of all of the countless
planets that are barren and dry? Why do we only have one life? Why is
every species and inanimate object "one of a kind"? Why is there only
one race of humans? It's because it is a metaphor that says "there is
only one God". Because the realms of other "gods" are "barren, dry, and
lifeless" because they do not exist. Planets are barren, dry, and
lifeless, because other "earths" do no exist. Why is evolution (at the
very least for humans) false? It is because God could not make more than
one "kind" of being if they are of His kind. Because there is only one
God, only one side of God, only one likeness of God. You ask "But God is
three in one! Does that mean humans are three different species that
have been mixed together? Perhaps we are the combination of amphibians,
reptiles, and primates." But no. The three parts of humanity are man,
woman, and child. There is more than one set of man, woman, and child
because it is a symbol of the immortality of God. Immortality cannot
exist in this universe, because no one is perfectly like God. Perhaps
before the fall there was a sort of "death" that was not
"death". A painless, sinless death without decay, or burial, or an end.
But a way for the human body and soul to become part of God's realm
again. It cannot be called death because death is too simple, and
negative to describe, "good death". But that's just what I think. So
birth, and "good death" are a cycle that create immortality in a form
that works in this universe, yet eternally connects it to the true
immortality of God's realm that we will ultimately become part of. And
one more thing. I said that there is only one earth, but there is a
"three-in-one" earth. Perhaps the sun and the moon are "pieces" of the
earth, because the earth cannot exist or work without the sun and moon.
And likewise, the Sun and moon would be nothing without the earth. So
the sun, moon and earth are united in a mutual yet independent
relationship. And the universal host of stars is representative of the
Heavenly Host of the Angels! Thus I believe that there was, is, and
always will be only one universe. Perhaps there is a "three-in-one"
universe, but I don't have an idea of what that is. There is one
universe; one life-filled earth; one blue sky; one God-like, beloved
species/race of people; and one divine, awesome, overwhelming,
inexplicable, God who rules over and commands all of creation. Pretty
cool, huh?

TheBWoods15 :

Woah, please fix your layout. I had to click reply just to see what you actually said!

As per the topic, wow that was a very long, thought out, well written perception on the universe. I consider myself a Christian, but I do have to throw in my 2 cents.

I know that you are trying to say that it's a lot of metaphors (I had to reread what you wrote twice haha). I strongly believe that there are other universes though, with other habitable planets, and other species who believe in a God of their own. I just don't think that with a sandbox this big, only one tiny part of it will ever be given attention. Maybe I don't actually believe this, and I trick myself into "strongly believing" it because I just want to think we are part of something bigger than we really are.

I guess I just don't want to believe that we are alone, in the one universe, with our one moon, our one sun, our one life, and our one death.

“Two possibilities exist: either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.” ― Arthur C. Clarke

the answer to your question is:

Does existence exist in our existence (AKA: what is life)?

this is what one person came up with:

"I believe in everything until it's disproved. So I believe in fairies, the myths, dragons. It all exists, even if it's in your mind. Who's to say that dreams and nightmares aren't as real as the here and now?
- John Lennon"

so it makes you wonder since, we have all this freedom but can never understand why. we can also wonder what would happen if somehow our creations have been living without our knowledge (toy story, anime, etc). all we know is that death is a mystery and so is life.

You are entitled to your opinions. However, from a scientific point of view what you wrote is faith. Which God are you referring to? How can you be sure he / she / it exists? How can you know that there is no life outside planet Earth? Or alternate universes (although it is a concept I find... strange)?

mastergame : I would actually do it in reverse. I do not "believe" in something until I am shown convincing proofs that it exists. Then it is not a matter of belief but knowledge. One believes in creationnism / intelligent design, but one knows the theory of evolution.

What I wrote was intentionally meant to be religion based. I don't have a good scientific mind. I see everything like a jigsaw puzzle with all the pieces scrambled. The pieces should all fit together. Where they connect are strong facts that make the big picture clearer. But the sides that are still unconnected are open to make a new connection. I actually came up with everything I wrote today in a matter of minutes, so it is not completely thought out. The reason I came up with this is because I am trying to write a response paper about the Bill Nye vs. Ken Ham debate. My angle is to disagree with Bill Nye's statements on the Big Bang Theory. I started thinking about how I think the universe may have formed. I later researched other theories for the creation of the universe. One of my own thoughts was "what if there are other hidden universes or realities, and one of these realities some how "ripped open" (presumably by God's Hand) and matter and energy poured out of it. But the mixture of mass and energy was so intense, that it create a massive explosion. I soon discovered that my thoughts were quite similar to that of The Incredible Bulk Theory, and I was intrigued and began pondering the idea of a multiverse, and a universe before the universe, and my imagination ran wild. But something kept nagging me saying, "As a Christian, should I believe in a multiverse, and such extraordinarily profound ideas?" I thought "But why? Why would it be against my religion?" And so above is what I came up with. So yeah. Everything that I wrote is completely based on faith, and it does not even argue any of Bill Nye's points. It is just a personal question that I wanted to find an answer to. I'm sorry, but if aliens come to this earth, or another universe/dimension is discovered, and another earth does exist. I would be extremely biased against them and stand firm believing they are not of God. Even if they said they were Angels of God. Even if it somehow sprung a thought in scientists or atheists that God might exist, I would worry that they are being led to a god that is not my Christian God, and therefore something evil, or deceitful. Something that does not know good and evil exist, are more dangerous than those who deny that they exist. If they are mystical creatures, which I do believe in since the Bible itself mentions unicorns and dragons and a leviathan and giants, then they must have been created solely for this earth. Perhaps they were the Holiest of creatures, and were so tainted by the sin of the fallen world, that they lost their divinity and "devolved" into creatures that are here today. But who knows? Thanks for being patient with my long posts. I will continue to ponder and construct my idea until it makes more sense or suddenly doesn't make sense to me at all. Til then, happy posting!

I sometimes think about if there is another universe that has technology far more advanced that ours, and they know about us, but we don't know about them. Maybe I'm thinking to deep about this.

TheBWoods15 :

Ah, a good response! I can tell you're really into the subject and have a lot of insight on what you believe in. It's good that you can admit that you are basing your point of view on faith rather than science, it can get a bit weird when people try to twist science into something it's simply not. You're right, everything is a large jigsaw puzzle. I personally believe that science helps to fill in the puzzle pretty well. There are plenty of pieces still missing, and once in a while science realizes that a certain piece really doesn't belong where they originally had it.

To me, good science is find answers for things that are hard to answer. Good religion is understanding that science isn't a bad thing, and can help you understand some things better. My personal belief is that if there is a God (and I hope there is), He Himself was created at what is considered the big bang theory. In this event, he sculpted what we perceive as the universe. We can't pretend we know everything though, because we really can't see everything. It's similar to how lasers work. We know they exist, but without proper equipment we can't actually see them (I'm talking about the invisible lasers). It takes time to truly figure things out, and it takes a lot of trial and error. If we were made in the image of God, as proposed in Christianity, then it only makes sense that we are creating, destroying, and figuring things out constantly.

So in my eyes, it works out like that. If science proves that a different God from the one you know and love exists, I'd understand you being a little reluctant to jump on it right away. As mentioned earlier, science isn't always right, and it changes a lot.

I like your open mind if anything, you really look at stuff from a different perspective!

no this is absolutely about existence, when we talk about existence we talk about how everything works even god has a rule. one can not expect things to work without meaning, we all know what happen when one rule becomes a loop hole. a god has to rule everything even him/herself its complex yes but thats why we dont understand, its like being a kid you are not allowed to know until you ready.

existence does exist, we know things because we know that time exists as well, we know time exist because movement exist, we know exist because of energy from our body. time is a way to make us move or put it in simple terms a movie that takes picture each day of our existence. how its possible is something we might never know but we do know it exists.

when people talk about a god they talking about a ruler, not the question in which makes a ruler. if a god really is a god if the death of all would be meaningless to kill us all with the death rule which we know exist. if a real god allow us to do anything then why follow a book that has no evidence of the meaning of a god. we know for a fact that there were many gods before the dictator god that every Christian bows down to, we have Ra god of the sun, Zeus god of the sky, Buddha, and google.

why did i why christian god is a dictator? well first your character Jesus has exact story of Horus:
http://www.atheismresource.com/2010/wtf-the-story-of-jesus-isnt-unique-of-course-it-isnt

no that doesn't matter to you, well how about the pope. the only religion to ever allow a person to be in control of what defines, what you guys call it "The words of god".

Nope still o.k what about past history, christians god killed 1 million+ people but there was never a flood, under the rule of your god "killing is a sin" so in theory christianist god have commit a sin, oh what ever happen to the First Crusade where people die for no reason on a peaceful world, thats right christians were the first to kill muslims and this is why ISIS is killing christians first and not other religion groups. Lastly let's not forget why america was built, they wanted a peaceful land to worship their dictator god but we know what happen, the natives were to blame for smallpox and soon the natives lost their homes to a bunch of crazy people who thought it was o.k to kill them.

as you can see god is not the subject to  talk about, the laws of existence is the answer. we will never know why there is such a thing or how it can be but we do know that it exist.

Honestly, I can't say whether there is any life on other planets or not. However, I believe it's possible. Until mankind is able to explore the farthest reaches of space and prove whether or not there's life or not, I'm willing to believe we're not alone. Then again, that probably won't happen in our lifetimes, so I don't think we'll ever know the truth. Future generations could figure out the answer though.

mastergame :

I mean, there's a lot of things in science that don't add up just as there is in religion. Who's to say one religion is even correct? What if all the religions were actually semi correct, but then the man created rules in the version of fake stories to act as guidelines?

I can go to a Christian resource and find counters to pretty much anything that site you linked would provide. Does that make either site right? No. It really doesn't, because at the end of the day literally everything is unfathomable. We can act like everything is black and white, but if that's true then we would not have to constantly change everything we have "discovered." How many makeovers have the dinosaurs even gotten for instance? They change "what they actually look like" more than people change clothes.

Existence does exist, and what we don't understand exists because non-existence is born from existence. We can go back and forth for days, and neither of us would progress through here.

The point is, we can't say one thing is right and one thing is wrong because we just don't know.

TheBWoods15 : Current scientific theory is very dissatisfying when it attempts to answer big questions. So many people put their 'faith' in science. When your theory says there are infinite anything, it's wrong. Multiverses included. There's is no universe where I'm president. Multiverse theory says there are literally trillions upon trillions. In one, I'm president, but have blond hair. In another, I'm president but bald. In yet another, everything else is the same, except for a dust particle on Mars is in a different place. Deny God but put faith in that? Please. They can't even tell you what 75% of the universe we see is made of.  Many atheists like to attack the faithful with science but don't know how to react when someone knows as much as they.

Ferdinand: How about putting faith in humanity? "God" used to be the answer to unknown questions (rainbow, weather, meaning of life). But as the human mind developed more and more, rationality was able to explain what was previously answered by "God." Is there a God? I do not know.

However you do have a point about "faith" in science - in which case it ceases to be science, as is the case with the climate "debate." Humble scientists, real scientists, never claim to have the absolute truth in anything. They merely state that what they found has not been disproved. It is not a matter of semantics; it makes all the difference in the world. Before electrons were discovered people believed that the atom was the smallest of particles; we now talk quarks.

The same thing for multiverse / life elsewhere in the Universe. As of now there is no proof either exist. But if many scientists are able to discover that either (or both) exist, then it WILL become science.

Skilledtree : Yes, there might be a lot that doesn't add up to the layman but to claim there's a god out of ignorance is intellectually dishonest. Scientists learn more about everything every year and they work their hardest to figure out everyday life. Just because you don't think science can explain everything doesn't make it true.


Ferdinand: You can't claim that the multiverse theorem is wrong because you have no proof at all it's wrong, just like scientists have little proof it's correct. Also don't bash atheists. You christians have reign over this site and atheists can't bash you.

I uh...Oh boy.

Evolution, is well very, very real. Especially for humans. Heck, evolution is just a change in anything, the term you are looking for is natural selection.

"Planets are barren, dry, and
lifeless, because other "earths" do no exist."
Nope. Other earths exist, all right. Tons of planets we have found are very similar to earth. Lifeless, not known yet. We just found out about water on Mars. Which could mean life and/or that there was life before. There are countless, countless planets and celestial bodies out there that we have no way of knowing anything about. We don't even know much about the planets closest to us.

I get that this is a thought fueled 100% by religion, but it falls apart completely using logic and science.

Also Occam's Razor.

maguc : the best proof of natural selection is in bacteria. More of them are resistance to antibiotics because we abused them, therefore making it likely that a strain will be resistant.

And yes, we have no proof of the existence (or not) of life elsewhere. The scientific thing do say is, I do not know.

The OP had a horrible layout, but really there is no argument there. You need to structure your paper like if-then statements. If X, then Y. Say why that relationship necessarily exists, then say how we know X to be true. Then state the conclusion, Y exists.

What you've done is called "mysticism". Actually, you've done it in reverse. Mysticism is taking a fact of nature and making a spiritual metaphor. You've taken a fact from religion and made a physical metaphor.

So you've made a lot of metaphors, but no argument.

TheFadedWarrior : 1 septillion to 1? I like those odds. But seriously, I believe in micro-evolution, but not macro-evolution. And I never actually said that evolution does not exist or tried to deny its existence. I only said that humans never evolved. I don't understand why users keep saying that I denied evolution. It was just one piece of it. But I digress. I do marvel at the popularity of this thread. As I explained in my second post, this was pretty much a whimsical thought that I formed in less than ten minutes. Because I had a moral question that I asked myself, and wanted to try to answer it. I decided to put it up on the forum just to see what otters (intentional) thought about it. I love science. I was home-schooled as a kid, and would read my science textbooks just for fun. Science fascinates me and I always look forward to new discoveries. It's just that in the same way that some people seem to think the Bible, and religious histories are fairy tales, or tall tales, I kind of think that science fiction stories are just high-tech fairy tales, and we shouldn't be gullible enough to let them make up our minds on the subject. I can't just read the Bible and believe every word it says. I have to know religious truths and learn what the words mean and actually believe "in" them. Similarly, but in a contrasting way, scientists can't just go by their ideas, and hunches, they actually have to find evidence and logical conclusions and really have to decide for themselves, when they found the right or best answer.

Edit: The science fiction thing I brought up isn't meant to say that evolution, or all science in general is science fiction. I'm saying that aliens, dimensions, alternate realities, and all that stuff are still mostly science fiction. I saw a Star Trek movie recently in which they use a device called the Genesis to turn a random planet into essentially another earth. That is clearly an argument against my idea of "there is and can only be one earth." But it is still just a movie, and my idea is hastily developed, and lacks support. So the battle is at a stand still at the moment.

I would be curious to know your reasoning behind "humans do not evolve." You say you believe in micro evolution but not macro; from what I gather from the theory evolution always starts on the micro level (like a bacterium resisting an antibiotic). It becomes macro if the micro becomes "the fittest" and overcomes the rest of the species. Many scientists believe that Neanderthal and Homo Sapiens Sapiens (our present species) lived side by side for some time. Since the former does not exist anymore, it IS proof of evolution since it was not fit enough to survive.

TheBWoods15 : Your clearly confusing scientific facts/ideology with your religion/faith and it's comical(no offense). Honestly the bible was made at in indecent time of early man and was used to set moral codes for people to live by.But Scientists discover new planets and galaxies every day and they just don't have the technology yet to fully explore them, they can only "peak thru a crack in the door instead of walking inside" so to speak.But you have to look at topics of astronomy and really scientific topics in general from a un-bais position air go without your religious views/faith and see the facts laid out before you by examining history and drawing conclusions. For example the bible puts the earth at about something like 4,000 years old when carbon dating proves the Earth is Billions of years old. In theory humans evolved from early primates, my reasoning behind this is the record recorded by fossils and fossilized remains of early man at very points in history. As for you not believing that there could be life on other planets you couldn't be more wrong there is life in the form of micro organisms, but assuming your talking about intelligent life, we just haven't found the intelligent life forms yet but I strongly believe they have found and been interacting with humans for a number of years now and my reasoning behind this way of thinking is the huge leap in technology in the past 30 years, it's unlike anything we have ever seen in recorded history.But people need to wake up and seen the difference between a religious faith and scientifically proven facts it's the only way society can advance knowledge is power expand your way of thinking, because your way of thinking bringing/mixing religious views into science is how and what kept great philosophers stagmented and down for centuries before proven wrong.