All Christian holidays are focused on Jesus, whether it be his birth or his resurrection or his time in the desert or whatever. Christians eat meat and dairy together. Christians worship on the day after the Sabbath and do work on the Sabbath. All of these are against the rules of traditional/Orthodox/Hasidic Judaism, and all of these are commanded in the Old Testament (OT). However, Christians are not abandoning the inspiration of the text nor their holiness. The OT is kept for a reason.

If we go chronologically, we'll note that before any laws against murder are given, Cain is punished for it. Cain broke no law, not of the government (because there was no government) nor one that God gave. Murder is naturally known of people to be wrong. In fact, according to the Garden of Eden story, all people know right and wrong for everything. So, if we know right and wrong, why does God have to give us specific commands? Well, basically, because we're really bad at keeping it. The first law God gives is "don't eat of the fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil" to Adam and Eve. The next person to receive laws is Noah in Chapter 9. The Jews call these the "Noahide" laws. Verses1-17 are the set up of a covenant (agreement, literally means "to cut"). Humans are to fill the earth and "not eat flesh with it's life". Basically, the animal must be dead before we can eat it. Common sense, right? What happens through the rest of the OT is establishments of covenants with God and people.

The next covenant established is with Abram (renamed Abraham during this giving of the covenant). He has no restrictions on his covenant. He is promised a son (Isaac) and land (Israel/Palestine) and given no restrictions within it. That same covenant continues through Isaac into Jacob, then from Jacob into his sons. This is why even Christians will use the phrase, "The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob".

The Mosaic covenant, the one with Moses, has many restrictions. These are the rules for the Jews and what the majority of the misunderstandings come from. If the Jews keep the covenant, God will bless them. This is not made with any Gentiles (Non-Jews). No gentile ever has to follow these. In fact, some of the rabbis I've spoken with look upon Gentiles who try to keep kosher as disdain. However, this still is an issue with Christianity because:

1) There are Jewish Christians
2) Christians claim to be "God's people" like the Jews do

There is another covenant in between, but I will be skipping to David. Samuel was a prophet soon after the nation of Israel was formally set up. One of the tasks he is more known for is picking a new king. The current king was Saul, and, well, lets just say he was bad at his job. David was the one to take his place, not Saul's sons. David, too, received a covenant with God (2 Sam. 7:4-17). His, too, was unconditional. He would have a "house forever" and out of this house will come the messiah (verse 16). However, Solomon (the son) does not have the same covenant. He must follow the commands (verse 14). And, lo and behold, he didn't. (1 Kings 11:11). Solomon does not get the messiah covenant passed on. Instead, it was given to a "servant". In this case, Nathan (not the prophet!).

The Mosaic covenant is still kicking and this is how the Jews operate for a long time.

When Jesus was born... nothing changed. The covenant was still there. Although the Messiah has been born, that means nothing.

When he started teaching though... nothing changed. He preached exactly what the rules were. There were a few fights about working on the Sabbath (his disciples picked grain to eat, he healed people, he didn't wash his hands, etc.) but either these are "oral law" (not mosaic law, but a guide to help you not even get close to breaking a mosaic law) or cleanliness law (which isn't a sin, it just means you can't sacrifice). None of these are ultimately problems.

While Jesus is on the cross though... still nothing.

After Jesus died.... Nothing.

Resurrection? Yes! There we have it. What this did is fulfill the Mosaic covenant. The covenant of Moses was not given just because God felt like imposing restrictions; it was given because someone had to do exactly what Christ did. Paul explains it best: "For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive" (1 Cor. 15:21-22). The mosaic covenant purified and forgave, but both the forgiveness and the cleanliness were temporary. Once you got sick, ate shellfish, touched a dead body, had your period, or shook hands with a girl on her period, it was over. Extremely temporary, and I promise you, there would rarely be a week you'd go without breaking one of the 613 laws set up. What was necessary was actually a similar structure. Instead of washing hands, we wash our hearts. Instead of resting on the Sabbath, we rest every day in the Lord. Instead of sprinkling blood on the forehead in the name of God before entering the holy of holies, we are sprinkled with water in the name of God before death/going to heaven. As for the sacrifice: instead of a lamb every week, an infinite sacrifice undid the effect of sin placed on us in Genesis 3.

The sacrifice made us redeemed and made the mosaic covenant obsolete and set of the covenant of Christianity. This includes baptism, communion, and a relationship with God. However, those that even lack all 3 of these still are resurrected. Christ's sacrifice undoes the consequence of death in the garden. However, since there is no relationship with God, the choice of death will befall again. Those whom God loves and who love God will not die. Life literally resides within them.

Christians live in the final covenant with God. The next steps of time will take place as soon as no more Christians can ever come into the world. Basically, the end will come when the Christians all die out. This is when Christ will judge lambs from goats, and they will not live with one another.

the reason you posted this here as opposed to the christian conservatives forum completely escapes me.

It escapes me why anyone would question this being in a debate forum subtitled with religion.

Txgangsta:  Interesting read.  Sorry if it's a daft question, but I don't see any question raised here or maybe I'm missing something, but I assume this is just a plain explanation of the difference between the Old and New Testament?

"The sacrifice made us redeemed and made the mosaic covenant obsolete and set of the covenant of Christianity. This includes baptism, communion, and a relationship with God. However, those that even lack all 3 of these still are resurrected."
Can you maybe elaborate on what you meant by the last sentence?  Are you resurrected even if you have no relationship with God?

Also this:  "Basically, the end will come when the Christians all die out."
Do you mean LITERALLY die, become "extinct" so to speak?  As far as I understand, and if you carefully study the end times timeline according to the bible, the rapture of God's church will mark the beginning of the end for all those who forsake Him.  The only thing that's keeping the evil at bay in this world, God's church and His Spirit, will be gone and Satan will have free reign for 7 years.

SoL@R : No questions are daft questions!

Since I've done the whole online debate/discussion, this is the biggest problem I see. Christians cling to the bible, but only follow the last 27 books. Its not true. I wanted to post in an area where non-Christians read to either spark debate or inform the audience.

The last sentence is "However, those that even lack all 3 of these still are resurrected". And yes, you are still given a resurrected body even if there is no relationship with God. The resurrection is before the separation of goats and lambs. Lambs get glorified bodies. I assume goats do not, but it actually doesn't say that anywhere. My main reference would come from 1 Cor. 15. Specifically, verse 22 is where you'll get most definitely that "All are made alive". However, while the non-Christians will get a resurrected body, it does not mean they are saved by any regard. The bare minimum is a relationship, but to those without he will say, "I do not know you".

When I say, "...the end will come when the Christians all die out", I mean any Christian left alive is so corrupted by the world that they can no longer teach the faith AND that any means to get to the truth has been destroyed. Until then, there is still an opportunity to have more saved, and the end times will not come. So, yes, when Christians become extinct and will never be ever again. Then it happens.

However, there is no rapture. In fact, I would advise you to completely abandon everything you've been taught on the book of Revelation. Its not a timeline. Not even close. Numbers in Hebrew are not always quantitative. Seven means complete, rest, special. 144,000 is 12x12x1000; 12 is power, importance, and complete, 1000 is a general estimate of  "a bunch". Jesus isn't going to come out of the sky with a sword in his mouth. That would, at the minimum, hurt him tremendously. He is the Word, and so his tongue is described as a weapon. Hell has no fire or brimstone, its just a place that is no fun to be in. Chapters 1-13 have already happened. Again, I completely deny any truth to a rapture theology.

I am sorry for the off topic comment but it is true that there is a fine line between what should be considered debate/ logic and what would more of a theological question that would fall more to the christian forum. Should all theological debates be here also and the christian part be just be haven for bible studies etc. Or should the debate forum be only for secular subjects?

Well, I could contribute to the actual converstaion by saying that the whole concept of "rapture" is nothing but American superstition.

Brigand : I didn't think it needed to go into the Christian Conservatives forum because I am not assuming Christianity to be true here. I am just explaining the literature. Debate was supposed to be over what the bible says, not if it's true or not. I see this as a big problem when debating: people disagree on what the Christian perspective is. The Christian and the non-Christian will strawman without even realizing it. I want a debate on the literature. If there is no debate, then it seems to be informative for debates.

Txgangsta :

Have to agree with you there and maybe I should have pressed more my opinion that debate/logic/religion is a pretty good spot for this kind of debate and especially from this perspective. Though I see it also as theological thing. And was answering more to the idea why some topics are there and not here. And I should have been more specific, which is my bad.

Txgangsta : "I would advise you to completely abandon everything you've been taught on the book of Revelation."  This dear sir, I simply cannot and will not do.  If you truly believe that the Bible is the divinely inspired, authoritative, trustworthy Word of God then surely the book of Revelation has been put in there for a very important reason.  God obviously thought it is important, so I'm definitely not even going to try and dispute that.  I also just need to point out that I am not a student of apologetics or an expert on the Bible and I still have a lot to learn as I study through it, but I know God's Word is powerful and it works.  It has to be studied and seen as a whole and in context, thus I have not referred to Revelation at all when I mentioned a "time line".  Of course Revelation gives us insight on many things to come, but evidence / references to a Biblical timeline for the end times you will find throughout the Bible.  Passages referring to the rapture alone can be found in Thessalonians, Corinthians and John, but I'm not going into that now as I am already way off topic and I think it's a discussion that needs to be placed under "Christian Conservatives" anyways.  As a matter of fact, I think I'll start a thread there on this topic  Would be interested to see your (and anybody else) thoughts on it.  Just as a quick side note - This is one description of hell in the Bible: "The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth." - Matthew 13:41-42