es screw retro gaming. I'm really tired of this whole stupid retro gaming movement. The whole of it is driven by the nostalgia of those who are so f***ing delusional that they don't even recognize it. No, games were not better in the 80s. No, the industry is not on a downward spiral. I hate how responsive the industry has been to this retro gaming movement. People complain that games are not completely stagnant so they can prolong leaving their childhood, the one time when they were happy and not looking back on how good they think their lives used to be. The retro gaming movement WILL make the industry enter a downward spiral because it promotes complete stagnation, never looking to push the medium further, only promoting an industry growing fat and happy on the money of people trying to relive past days. People who say that 2D games are better than 3D games are completely blinded by nostalgia, as of course, from a technical aspect, 3D games are "better" than 2D games. Rather than just say what I hate in sentence after sentence, I am going to structure this a little more and write something TL;DR that no one will read even though I spent time on it

First, I'll address the complaints about the game industry. Now, a bit of the inspiration for this comes from this guy on the internet named the Game OverThinker. I used to like him back when he first started on YouTube (and when he didn't have such a huge ego) and agree with him though he has become a patronizing dickweed as of late that backs up his paper thin arguments with the defense of "shut up". Anyway, he has ranted for a long time about the game industry and the whole "gray-brown FPS" state of it at the moment. He hates these games and this direction that the industry is "going towards". On this point him and I agree, however, he goes further and says that this a big problem and that the industry is going down because of this. He is a retro gamer and I appreciate the irony of him hating something he thinks is bringing the industry down while promoting something that is really doing what he is afraid of. Him and people who think like him fail to acknowledge that the industry is not going "down", it simply isn't going in a direction that appeals to them. I am an N64 fanboy/Sony Fanboy and basically hate where the industry is going now, with an emphasis on either shooters or more cinematic games when I usually prefer ones that cut down on the extraneous story/cutscenes (read: usually). However, I don't pretend that the industry is somehow falling, I know that it is simply going in a direction that doesn't appeal to me. I know that games are better now, I myself simply don't have as much fun with them.

Second, I want to tackle the impact of this movement on long-running franchises. Megaman 9 came out in response to people b****ing about how Megaman moved away from what it originally was, so Capcom responded by essentially making a new NES game. It was a novelty and I didn't have much of a problem with it, but then they came out with Megaman 10, and I'd be surprised if Megman 11 isn't on the way. They've found a way to make a quick buck by spending much less money than they would on a current retail game and profiting off of "retro gamers". The impact of this is that other companies now see that you can make profit making games that are complete rehashes of past games. Sonic is a great example of this. Instead of actually trying to make their 3D work well, Sega has realized that they should just make 2D Sonic, and everyone will happily hand over their cash. People don't realize that not every developer is Nintendo and won't necessarily make a perfect 3D conversion at first. Instead of actually supporting progression, they say, "Just fall back on how you used to do it." This mentality is what is breeding all these stupid "retro revivals" and other such crap. I would have originally thought that a good compromise for this would be that their precious "retro revivals" would just stay on handhelds, where the games are less powerful and less expensive (though at this point both the Sony and Nintendo handhelds (well, once the 3DS comes out) are on the level of the Playstation 2). However, this apparently isn't good enough, since handheld games "don't count". Apparently the only way they count is if developers get people to pay more money than they should for them. Seriously, I don't want to pay 50 godforsaken dollars for a 2D game. 2D games take less time and money to make than a 3D game of a similar pedigree no matter which way you slice it. An incredibly good looking 2D game may cost more to make than a horrendous 3D game, but horrendous 3D games just sit on the shelves laying dormant anyway, so it doesn't even matter. Sure, Kirby's Epic Yarn looks great, but that doesn't mean that I should pay for it the same thing I do for Super Mario Galaxy 2. Anyway, I got off track there with the pricing a bit, though it is relevant because if this whole stagnation (in fact, not just stagnation, regression) takes over the industry, I better not be paying $50 or $60 for a game that could have been made in the early 90s save a few f***ing 3D models. Franchises should move forward, not rely on a set formula. For example, a person may be head over heels in love with Super Mario 64 (such as myself), and that person may want every Mario game thereafter to be like it, but progression is the very thing that led to Mario 64. Without moving forward we don't discover new ideas and formulas that become games a new generation will want to hold on to.

I do agree with you somewhat. The thing is that SOME of these retro games are better than these pieces of s*** that have been released lately. Look at FF13. I read several reviews earlier AND I DO NOT WANT TO PLAY THAT THING. The reviewers even go to the point of explaining that the entire game is combat with next to no exploration. It also features 25? hours of hand-holding before you can actually run your own party. When did exploration become edited from RPGS? Now look back at Chrono Trigger. It has been proclaimed as one of the best RPGS of all time and its how old? it was released in 1995 in japan. fifteen years old and people still remember it. that's something for retro gaming for you.
But you need to realize that the gaming industry is dying back some. I've read on Yahoo that sales are way below what they were at this time a few years ago. I believe it is mainly the economy. People cannot afford to spend $60+ on a video game especially when families are having to support those out of work.

Yes, the industry isn't failing. In fact, it's probably on a rise thanks to casual gaming and FPS and the ongoing support of hardcore audiences.
And about Sonic. The fact is, they do way better with their 2D games than their 3D games. They're taking a bit too long compared to Zelda or Mario to get their 3D games perfected. There's always so many flaws in the 3D games and it takes this long for SEGA to finally listen to some complaints and get with the program. Sonic Unleashed? Never played it, but I didn't even bother since I heard it was horrible thanks to those terrible nighttime levels. The day levels though, were almost universally acclaimed as probably their greatest effort at 3D Sonic yet. An upcoming game named Sonic Colors, however, does seem intriguing as it's a 3D Sonic game that's essentially Unleashed without the nighttime levels.
I can't tell whether or not you're for or against games that follow a specific "formula"... games like Zelda or Mario or whatever, games that are basically almost the same game, but it improves with each new installment(most of the time). But the fact is, those games do well because of their formula. The people who play those games; they play them because of the formula. It appeals to them. It's what attracts them to pay and play for the games in the first place. Like how Metroid games are great because of its eerie vibe of isolation and exploration and how Mario's great because of platforming. The fact is though, they keep the formula, but they still progress. Games like Sonic however, they don't progress as much. They progressed up to around Sonic Adventure 2 or Sonic Heroes, and then they just go off into a tangent and start adding elements that totally stain the franchise. Sonic doesn't need swordplay or gunfights or even werewolves(hogs). Its main focus is speedy, reflexive platforming. SEGA adding other gameplay elements that essentially slow Sonic down makes fans call for a "retro revival" so to speak. I think after Sonic Colors, the franchise maybe be able to start up again and progress. It's the same with other franchises that made fans want a revival. They just went too far out of the original formula.

i don't think it's that big of a deal to be honest. I like to kick back and play some old school games but it's not like a nostalgia craze or movement. I'm not making a statement or anything. Just playin some old games. And let's face it, some of that s*** is still difficult no matter how many times you play it, dude. I completely see your point but I think it's kind of... generalizing.

The retro gamers i know play old and new so they keep the industry going with there new games as well as enjoying the old. As for nostalgia if your a real gamer you don't stop playing so how can you become nostalgic about something you still play and haven't stopped playing. I love my new systems but have never stopped playing my old ones they are all still set up all i have to do is flick a switch and I'm playing my N64 flick again and my Mega Drive is in action Flick again and my PS3 kicks in and so on and so forth.

Not all retro games are the great classics. But a disturbing trend I've noticed in recent years is that games are trying too hard to be movies. A game with a story can be great, but a story with a crappy game jammed in at the last moment is an abomination. Quick time events suck. I guess it's easier to just awe people with spectacle than actually come up with new ideas. Which brings me to another point; when it's about the graphics, it degrades very quickly. Do you go back and play OOT for the amazing graphics or because it's a great game? I suppose the more resources they divert to graphics, the less they try to come up with new ideas, because some time during the gamecube/PS2/Xbox generation of consoles, the demographic of games started shifting more quickly towards cinematics. We got a peek at this with FFVII, but it still had a good balance between the two, and they went hand in hand. A parallel could be drawn to movies, but I digress (coughAvatarcough). I'm not saying there aren't good new games too, but the good game ideas are getting fewer and farther between. Games are not movies, no matter how hard they try to be.

For the record, Sonic did manage a beautiful translation to 3D, but then they screwed it up with poor ideas and programming after the first couple of games.

damn dude u need to smoke a joint. retro games are the $hit and they'll never die in the hearts of true gamers who were there when Super Mario Bros. 3 was awesome, new technology. Memories are worth more than ur new games with their ability to save at will n crap. Back in the day, when u lost three times you were SCREWED. and thats what molds a true gamer.

Brotha Sumo : damn dude u really need for f$x your grammar.

Dying three times isn't a true gamer, that's just being a dick game designer who thinks every eight year old has patience. Your point of Super Mario Bros 3....? I think kids have an equivalent to that too, you know Super Mario Galaxy....

Just because of some sort of unfair option like having long passwords or having horrid hit detection doesn't make a gamer "true"

But hey, make I need to "Smoke a joint" because I have an opinion on the internet.

I agree that industry is doing very well, I also agree that 2d games are cheaper to make. But I also think that some games are just better in 2d. People are fine with with moving forward as long as the games are actually good (which the 3d sonics really weren't). Also there is the complaint of a lot of games lacking storyline or the story being secondary, which I think is unfortunately true about some games today. And I don't see how retro gaming will bring down the industry, most people who play retro games also buy new games, and then there are those who don't play retro games and buy the new ones, so really it isn't hurting anything for people to enjoy games from their past.

xfighter1138 : Wasn't it a bit silly of you to create this thread in a site based on retro games

Yeah, but I agree that you brought up some good points, albeit with a bit of obscenity

i think that the answer to you argument is the saying dont try and fix somthing that isnt broken. mario always was and always will be a platformer, it doesnt matter if hes in space or in mushroom kingdom he will jump and stomp things. zelda will always be an adventure game. get a sword and kill stuff and throw in a good story and you have a zelda game. if the concept works companies wont change it. now with things like the n64 they had 3d type graphics so they took a chance putting mario and zelda out there. it worked so we got mario 64 ds and mario galaxy and Loz majoras mask and Loz PH and Loz ect. with things like sonic (i dont like sonic....just putting that out there) they had it working with all the 2d so they tried 3d adventure type game and it fell flat (sonic unleashed and other horrid sonic titles like that) they tried it numorous times i believe and finally they are coming out with sonic colors which since it goes back to old school sonic principals its going to work. what im saying is that change works and change doesnt. the games do differ though. they all go to the same place. mario saves peach, link saves hyrule but how they get from point a to point b is always different. its not really nostalgia as it is how the game will play out this time.

xfighter1138 : Yea I'm not too concerned about grammar in a videogame forum really. Can i still pass ur english class with a c- professor? I'll do extra credit n everything

honestly i agree but not truley because i love my old games and if they will make them like that again then do it. Sonic never worked in 3d so they are going back to 2d if you want a bad sonic game be my guest but i dont ever want that. Same with mega mand if you want mega man in 3d hd but a terrible game at heart then you can have it but id rather have good games even if the graphics suffer. I might not pay full price for it but thats what gamestop is for. I think i wrote my largest post ever right here right now.

KlawedFlaw : Funny, but that would be considered spam. So please don't do it again.

I personally enjoy retro games better than newer games, although I do think new game companies should grow some balls and actually use the new technology they have.

Zamiel : Sorry. Thanks for telling me.

xfighter1138 : Nice going, I love that. What made you pull the trigger anyways ?

billythekidmonster : "Sonic never worked in 3D", excuse me ? Sonic Heroes, Sonic adventure (and 2), those 3 games have a retro feel in a 3D world, which is rare (I didn't feel it with Mario).

I don't get it, why do people think 2D is better then 3D, then when Sega makes Sonic 4, people complain on eye colour, I think these idiots are just troll.

I dislike the idea of Sonic 4, it just, feels like the dumbest thing Sega did, Sega's just searching the WRONG part of the internet, Youtube are full of 10 year olds who flame only because no one knows about them.

And Reviewers ? They are just people who thinking being trigger happy is c00l.

Xifghter took the words from my mouth and made it more clear, I wanted to talk about the awesomeness of Super Mario 64, did anyone see the games before, how they tried new gimmicks, similar to what Sonic is going now, but people say gimmicks "suck", if there were no gimmicks in Mario, we won't have a master peace known as "Super Mario 64", we will most likely get something call "Super Mario Brothers 10" which is just the same game with better graphics and different levels, which is what people want Sonic to do.

Didowe : so im a ten year old who flames? Im just saying that sonic doesnt work in 3d. Also games shouldnt have an old school feel unless thats what the maker wants you too feel.
Ok you dislike sonic 4 then you probably dislike mega man 10 too dont you? DONT YOU? Im just stating a opinoin and I get flamed. This is the kind of stuff that gives this site a bad name.

dude I like retro games. I do agree in part, but nor completely.