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US foreign policy

 

04-09-17 03:47 PM
janus is Offline
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While an agnostic, I'm always willing to discuss with people whose ideas are not a direct threat to my life or property. And it's always a good opportunity to understand what seems foreign to my mindset.

That being said, the U.S. has been acting as the world's policeman for quite some time. Despite "winning" the Cold War, it seems that (mostly) neoconservatives are never satisfied and want always more foreign intervention. Now, Donald Trump has already embarked in that bandwagon by firing missiles to Syria... while he vehemently denounced such actions in the past. Some say that it's simply a warning towards Assad to stop using - if he even did - chemical weapons towards his people.

To all Christians out there: is there ANY justification for war when the country's territorial integrity is not menaced in any way? Is an aggressive foreign policy something "Christian" or not?
While an agnostic, I'm always willing to discuss with people whose ideas are not a direct threat to my life or property. And it's always a good opportunity to understand what seems foreign to my mindset.

That being said, the U.S. has been acting as the world's policeman for quite some time. Despite "winning" the Cold War, it seems that (mostly) neoconservatives are never satisfied and want always more foreign intervention. Now, Donald Trump has already embarked in that bandwagon by firing missiles to Syria... while he vehemently denounced such actions in the past. Some say that it's simply a warning towards Assad to stop using - if he even did - chemical weapons towards his people.

To all Christians out there: is there ANY justification for war when the country's territorial integrity is not menaced in any way? Is an aggressive foreign policy something "Christian" or not?
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04-09-17 07:57 PM
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Christians study the Old Testament, yes? In that case, I'd say there is a precedence for God wreaking havoc on other people, even if they aren't threats to the tribes and groups who worship God.

Didn't God have the Israelites come down and wipe out entire populations because those populations didn't honor God as the one true Lord?

Saying that, the United States fights wars looking for political stability in those areas, thereby providing economic stability. Wars in the Middle East are about dollar bills, oil, and other goods and potential trade partners. There is strife and civil war everywhere, in South America, in Africa, in Asia, and the U.S. stays out of those areas, not because of God or Christianity, but because they aren't resource-rich areas compared to the Middle East.

I'm sure you'll get a Bible savvy person to say I Chronicles 28:3 is a good spot because God does not allow King David (of all people) to build a temple since he is a warrior and shed blood.

That's not a bad spot to show God hates war.

But God allows war, since he is the King of all on Heaven and Earth. And he allows the senseless violence and destruction and gas attacks and everything else out there. Sure, we can say it's from sin but if God were against it, why would he let it happen?

Since my name is Warmaker, I must be a warmonger. Here are my Bible quotes:

1 Samuel 15:18 "And he sent you on a mission, saying, "Go and destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

Another:

Deut 20:16-18 “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.”

This shows God says, "Be aggressive and go kill others so you don't fall to their snares."

So, I think it's up to each person to interpret what they think the Bible wants of us. Me? I think God loves violence and killing. Jesus, not so much. Jesus is the nice one. God is the angry one.
Christians study the Old Testament, yes? In that case, I'd say there is a precedence for God wreaking havoc on other people, even if they aren't threats to the tribes and groups who worship God.

Didn't God have the Israelites come down and wipe out entire populations because those populations didn't honor God as the one true Lord?

Saying that, the United States fights wars looking for political stability in those areas, thereby providing economic stability. Wars in the Middle East are about dollar bills, oil, and other goods and potential trade partners. There is strife and civil war everywhere, in South America, in Africa, in Asia, and the U.S. stays out of those areas, not because of God or Christianity, but because they aren't resource-rich areas compared to the Middle East.

I'm sure you'll get a Bible savvy person to say I Chronicles 28:3 is a good spot because God does not allow King David (of all people) to build a temple since he is a warrior and shed blood.

That's not a bad spot to show God hates war.

But God allows war, since he is the King of all on Heaven and Earth. And he allows the senseless violence and destruction and gas attacks and everything else out there. Sure, we can say it's from sin but if God were against it, why would he let it happen?

Since my name is Warmaker, I must be a warmonger. Here are my Bible quotes:

1 Samuel 15:18 "And he sent you on a mission, saying, "Go and destroy those wicked people, the Amalekites; make war on them until you have wiped them out."

Another:

Deut 20:16-18 “However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you. Otherwise, they will teach you to follow all the detestable things they do in worshiping their gods, and you will sin against the LORD your God.”

This shows God says, "Be aggressive and go kill others so you don't fall to their snares."

So, I think it's up to each person to interpret what they think the Bible wants of us. Me? I think God loves violence and killing. Jesus, not so much. Jesus is the nice one. God is the angry one.
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04-11-17 09:13 PM
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I am a Christian and I would say no especially concerning the US foreign policy for the past 60 years. Mainly because it has been due to greed and our own interests. Not so much helping people out like the politicians like to claim. In fact we have often made things worse when we try to be the world police. Here are perfect examples in the past 60-65 years. 

In 1952 America overthrows Iran's Democracy 

Believe it or not Iran was once a democracy. After WWII, Iran had an elected democracy. People in Iran had rights and Iran was a peaceful nation. However in 1950 Iran Nationalized its Oil fields. This mean that other companies would have to pay higher fees to use Iran Oil. Iran's economy was booming because they were getting their own revenue. The USA did not like this at all. So in 1952 the CIA starts a coupe with the Shah. The USA backs the Shah with military and political power as the Shah promises to get the oil flowing again. In 1953 the Shah overthrows Iran's Democracy. The Shah proved to be a dictator and brutal. In 1979 Iran became a Islamic Republic with Sharia law and ruled by a supreme leader. Iran is what it is today people do not have any rights and its a terrorist run state. We help create it all because of oil. 

Vietnam War for ????

In the Mid 1950's Vietnam split into two countries the Communist North and more democratic South Vietnam. A civil war erupted. Presidents Ike and JFK did not want the US to be military involved. However, LBJ had a different idea. Documents in 1967 and 2000 revealed that LBJ wanted to go into Vietnam to end Communism to draw support he lied about our ships being attacked in the Gulf of Token. In 2000 it was revealed that he made the story up to sell his Vietnam Policy. LBJ's own personal war got 58,200 soldiers killed, and 2.5-3 million civilians killed. Did Communism stop nope, and as many people who went over there did not really no what they were fighting for or why they were even there. 

US overthrows Chile government because of mines 

Chile, had a lot of mining resources and mines. The US wanted access to the mines. Only one problem Chile had nationalized their mines. So the US starts a coupe and makes a deal with Augusto Pinchote. Pinchote promises to allow America access to the mines. So we back Augusto with weapons and money. He is installed in 1973. During his 17 years it was brutal for Chile, Over 2 million people executed millions more put into prison, and people lost rights. All because of Mines. 

US intervenes in the Iraq Iran War 

From 1980-1988 Iran and Iraq fought each other in a very bloody war. The US did not want either side to win. If one of the countries won it could be bad as both were run by dictators. Also the US was concerned because both countries are rich in oil. So what does America do well we arm both sides. Basically we acted like the world police, made sure there was no clear winning, and made sure nothing changed because of oil again 

US intervenes in Bosnia 

Now this one is just strange. In the 1990's there was a series of war in the Balkin region of Europe. It really made no sense for other countries to get involved in this war. Yet they did. What is strange is Bosnia, Serbia and the other Balkin regions really didn't have nothing in our interests. Yet we bombed that area and for what??

US invades Iraq 

Now this one is pretty recent. In 2003 we invaded Iraq because they had nukes. So we go in there we destroy Iraq's military and government. What ends up happening is a civil war starts in Iraq. Civilians get caught in the middle. Also Iraq govt is still very weak and they are still fighting terrorist 

More meddling in the Middle East. 

The US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria and other Middle Eastern Countries. All of these countries are war torn countries and people are very miserable. We have also supported coupes in the region. Once again mainly for greed. 

So, In summary while our leaders may say its to protect civilians at the end of the day it is due to our own purposes. As our history we have meddled in other countries because of oil, mines, natural resources, and for our own political gang. In the meantime our actions have caused people to suffer or even be killed. Do I think God is happy with that esp with our attitude of greed just for resources No I do not 
I am a Christian and I would say no especially concerning the US foreign policy for the past 60 years. Mainly because it has been due to greed and our own interests. Not so much helping people out like the politicians like to claim. In fact we have often made things worse when we try to be the world police. Here are perfect examples in the past 60-65 years. 

In 1952 America overthrows Iran's Democracy 

Believe it or not Iran was once a democracy. After WWII, Iran had an elected democracy. People in Iran had rights and Iran was a peaceful nation. However in 1950 Iran Nationalized its Oil fields. This mean that other companies would have to pay higher fees to use Iran Oil. Iran's economy was booming because they were getting their own revenue. The USA did not like this at all. So in 1952 the CIA starts a coupe with the Shah. The USA backs the Shah with military and political power as the Shah promises to get the oil flowing again. In 1953 the Shah overthrows Iran's Democracy. The Shah proved to be a dictator and brutal. In 1979 Iran became a Islamic Republic with Sharia law and ruled by a supreme leader. Iran is what it is today people do not have any rights and its a terrorist run state. We help create it all because of oil. 

Vietnam War for ????

In the Mid 1950's Vietnam split into two countries the Communist North and more democratic South Vietnam. A civil war erupted. Presidents Ike and JFK did not want the US to be military involved. However, LBJ had a different idea. Documents in 1967 and 2000 revealed that LBJ wanted to go into Vietnam to end Communism to draw support he lied about our ships being attacked in the Gulf of Token. In 2000 it was revealed that he made the story up to sell his Vietnam Policy. LBJ's own personal war got 58,200 soldiers killed, and 2.5-3 million civilians killed. Did Communism stop nope, and as many people who went over there did not really no what they were fighting for or why they were even there. 

US overthrows Chile government because of mines 

Chile, had a lot of mining resources and mines. The US wanted access to the mines. Only one problem Chile had nationalized their mines. So the US starts a coupe and makes a deal with Augusto Pinchote. Pinchote promises to allow America access to the mines. So we back Augusto with weapons and money. He is installed in 1973. During his 17 years it was brutal for Chile, Over 2 million people executed millions more put into prison, and people lost rights. All because of Mines. 

US intervenes in the Iraq Iran War 

From 1980-1988 Iran and Iraq fought each other in a very bloody war. The US did not want either side to win. If one of the countries won it could be bad as both were run by dictators. Also the US was concerned because both countries are rich in oil. So what does America do well we arm both sides. Basically we acted like the world police, made sure there was no clear winning, and made sure nothing changed because of oil again 

US intervenes in Bosnia 

Now this one is just strange. In the 1990's there was a series of war in the Balkin region of Europe. It really made no sense for other countries to get involved in this war. Yet they did. What is strange is Bosnia, Serbia and the other Balkin regions really didn't have nothing in our interests. Yet we bombed that area and for what??

US invades Iraq 

Now this one is pretty recent. In 2003 we invaded Iraq because they had nukes. So we go in there we destroy Iraq's military and government. What ends up happening is a civil war starts in Iraq. Civilians get caught in the middle. Also Iraq govt is still very weak and they are still fighting terrorist 

More meddling in the Middle East. 

The US has bombed Libya, Yemen, Syria and other Middle Eastern Countries. All of these countries are war torn countries and people are very miserable. We have also supported coupes in the region. Once again mainly for greed. 

So, In summary while our leaders may say its to protect civilians at the end of the day it is due to our own purposes. As our history we have meddled in other countries because of oil, mines, natural resources, and for our own political gang. In the meantime our actions have caused people to suffer or even be killed. Do I think God is happy with that esp with our attitude of greed just for resources No I do not 
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