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Any Confederate-related monuments getting demolished in my hometown
12-17-15 06:50 PM
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Here is a link of the news about those statutes plans of demolition.. http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/new-orleans-council-votes-to-remove-confederate-monuments/ar-BBnEU97
If you haven't heard in the news, my hometown of New Orleans is thinking about removing the Robert E. Lee statue and every other Confederate-related monuments. I don't even know why they want to remove history (it could be like they did with Hitler, Lenin, Saddam, and all of them, but Lee isn't anywhere near them). I know that people wants to erase the horrible past, but it got me thinking that they have went a little too far with this whole anti-confederate stuff. Sure, slavery and the KKK was horrible and all, but both of those doesn't mean the whole Confederacy was bad. There is a saying, don't judge a book by it's cover. Like I said, I know racism is beyond horrific, but thinking of removing history because people are so offended is even worse. My advice is just deal with it and not pay attention to it, and go on with your lives. If you know me, I don't care about history or the Confederacy, because that was the past and I look at the future, but it's getting to a point that it's getting out of control and I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about banning all Confederate-related things, why didn't they do that 150 years ago instead of waiting till today and create a commotion. You know, with all the recent actions such as this one, this got me thinking that the whole world is getting too sensitive, like you can't say anything or do anything without offending those people, it's getting to a point that everyone is turning into wimps, all of you guys that are offended needs to man up and grow up, no one can get things your way, just let it go and move on. If you haven't heard in the news, my hometown of New Orleans is thinking about removing the Robert E. Lee statue and every other Confederate-related monuments. I don't even know why they want to remove history (it could be like they did with Hitler, Lenin, Saddam, and all of them, but Lee isn't anywhere near them). I know that people wants to erase the horrible past, but it got me thinking that they have went a little too far with this whole anti-confederate stuff. Sure, slavery and the KKK was horrible and all, but both of those doesn't mean the whole Confederacy was bad. There is a saying, don't judge a book by it's cover. Like I said, I know racism is beyond horrific, but thinking of removing history because people are so offended is even worse. My advice is just deal with it and not pay attention to it, and go on with your lives. If you know me, I don't care about history or the Confederacy, because that was the past and I look at the future, but it's getting to a point that it's getting out of control and I'm getting sick and tired of hearing about banning all Confederate-related things, why didn't they do that 150 years ago instead of waiting till today and create a commotion. You know, with all the recent actions such as this one, this got me thinking that the whole world is getting too sensitive, like you can't say anything or do anything without offending those people, it's getting to a point that everyone is turning into wimps, all of you guys that are offended needs to man up and grow up, no one can get things your way, just let it go and move on. |
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When anyone believes what is shown in the main stream media, than yes, people are that sensitive. I would go so far as to call them sheeple. You can't see our world in anything less than a game show these days. |
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People are weird. They want to remove Thomas Jefferson statues too because he was a racist. Why not throw out the constitution since it was written by racists too? You know, every country that currently exists was founded on racism and rebellion. We should rebel against that and start a new country that only discriminates discriminators! That's not hypocritical at all! |
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I think political correctness has gotten out of hand. There have been movements that want to take the civil war era out of history books. If we do not learn from the past we are doomed to repeat it. But it seems like everything offends anybody. People have been told not to put out Nativity scenes because it might offend non Christians, schools have told some students not to pray before eating or before class because it might offend somebody. Church's have had signs vandalized because their message offended somebody. In some counties people want to remove dead confederate soldiers graves because it is sensitive. In addition, some places no longer serve meat esp pork cause it offenses people. So yes, I think the world has gotten to sensitive. It just seems like no matter what you do or say somebody will find it offensive. I am concerned it is going to get so bad that we will lose freedom of speech. Used to when I was growing up 80's and early 90's. If something was offensive on TV you just changed the channel. If a sign was offensive you just kept driving or take your business elsewhere. So yes, I think the world has gotten to sensitive. It just seems like no matter what you do or say somebody will find it offensive. I am concerned it is going to get so bad that we will lose freedom of speech. Used to when I was growing up 80's and early 90's. If something was offensive on TV you just changed the channel. If a sign was offensive you just kept driving or take your business elsewhere. |
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12-18-15 12:55 AM
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From my understanding, the South had a right to succeed in the first place. I actually think that the civil war was widely misunderstood. I wish the Federal government didn't exercise the kindof power that it does today, and states maintained more individuality, but that's long since been gone.
Since. . . Andrew Jackson's era? My American politics and history must be rusty. . . Since. . . Andrew Jackson's era? My American politics and history must be rusty. . . |
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12-18-15 08:34 AM
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These people are WAY too sensitive. Yeah, let's remove our entire culture because people who aren't even from here had their feelings hurt! The South, back in the day, had every right to suceed from the The South, back in the day, had every right to suceed from the |
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12-18-15 09:41 AM
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A user of this : My point exactly. I think that the South can succeed from the In the history books, they say it's because of Slavery, but that is completely false, they wanted to become independent because they got sick of being bullied by the People thinks the Confederates are slave supporting, racist morons, it's not true. The media want to make the Confederates look bad because they were slave owners before they made slavery against the law. If the North let the South become independent, you can see all the Southerns aren't evil slave supporting morons like the media wants you to think. That's like the flag controversy, it's because a member of the KKK shot all those people in an African American church and wave the Confederate flag, that doesn't mean to forbid that flag, they could used the US flag and nothing will happen. I don't want to go into details or I'll start making conspiracy theories and I'll start sounding dumb. In the history books, they say it's because of Slavery, but that is completely false, they wanted to become independent because they got sick of being bullied by the People thinks the Confederates are slave supporting, racist morons, it's not true. The media want to make the Confederates look bad because they were slave owners before they made slavery against the law. If the North let the South become independent, you can see all the Southerns aren't evil slave supporting morons like the media wants you to think. That's like the flag controversy, it's because a member of the KKK shot all those people in an African American church and wave the Confederate flag, that doesn't mean to forbid that flag, they could used the US flag and nothing will happen. I don't want to go into details or I'll start making conspiracy theories and I'll start sounding dumb. |
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This is what New Orleans Mayor Landrieu said is the reason for his Monument take down: "This is about more than the men represented in these statues. This discussion is about whether these monuments, built to reinforce the false valor of a war fought over slavery, ever really belonged in a city as great as New Orleans whose lifeblood flows from our diversity and inclusiveness. Our history before and after the Civil War should not be neglected, nor our identity defined by the Confederacy – our identity is much broader and richer than these symbols. As we look to our city’s tricentennial celebration in 2018, we should be a city where symbols inspire and include, not divide; and, a place a where we celebrate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not death, war and slavery. Supremacy may be a part of our past, but it should not be part of our future.” However, New Orleans is literally built off its history. Everything from the French Square to the voodoo shows is from the slave period. All those Civil War nightly ghost shows pulls in a lot of revenue also! He said "we must reckon with our past" at the council meeting but what he really is doing is trying to run away from it and remove the images that says, "This is what happened..." He is doing what every politician before him did, ignore history and the causes of the issues we have today. It would be much easier to forget than to fix. He says we need "symbols [that] inspire and include, not divide; and, a place a where we celebrate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Who can think of a better inspiration than Michael Luther King Jr.? Well a majority of streets and places named after him are about as opposite of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" that you can get. Hell, even I went to a school (in Louisiana) named after M.L.K., where blacks were allowed to bring guns and knives on grounds. I use to be bullied for being white (I am Native American but they thought I was a dark tanned white boy). When I brought this up to the Staff, the explanation was "Whitefolks deserve it since they enslaved blacks". Really? So it's ok for them to be racist but not me? ok I get it. So yea Positive Symbols teaches us that blacks are being protected by law to do whatever and the poor have no hope of getting anywhere in life. That alone should prove that either (a) Mayor Landrieu is completely ignorant or (b) out for his own agenda --which is what he's doing. According to a council woman investigations, he was already poised to disobey the votes and ready to tear down the statues in case they didn't vote on his side. Not only that but this little thing is causing him and the city more trouble. He has managed to tick off of at least 3 of the largest Historian organizations that deal with the War Between the States:
United Daughters of the Confederacy (which is one of the largest caretakers of memorials and graves) He has made enemies with Governor Bobby Jindal He has people who once loved New Orleans boycotting it. He has managed to get himself and the city sued for thinking about it! There are countries, like Germany (yes the one Hitler ruled) that have outlawed changing historical facts to suit biased point of views; this is known as Historical Negationism --Which our Media and schools love to do. (Old example: Boston Massacre; New example: Baltimore Riot" {couldn't find a video that compared the real VS media footage but this has a lot of references}). What would I propose they do? First off, better the education. America is sub-par when it comes to other 1st world countries in education. Louisiana is one of the worst in America pulling up at 48th place. I would also suggest making public policies and super enforcing them so that everyone is treated fairly no matter of race, sex, gender, age, or class. There should be a huge fine when these are broken. The Historians and Re-enactors' "Freedom of Speech" rights should be protected the same as everyone else's, so that they can accurately represent the history they represent. These guys are extremely important since they take their time (and sometimes risk their life) to bring to memory and teach the horrors of their times. The only way our problems will be fixed is when we actively work together to fix the causes that history is teaching us, not fight over personally "offenses". Unless, you won't history to just keep repeating like is has for other countries. This is what New Orleans Mayor Landrieu said is the reason for his Monument take down: "This is about more than the men represented in these statues. This discussion is about whether these monuments, built to reinforce the false valor of a war fought over slavery, ever really belonged in a city as great as New Orleans whose lifeblood flows from our diversity and inclusiveness. Our history before and after the Civil War should not be neglected, nor our identity defined by the Confederacy – our identity is much broader and richer than these symbols. As we look to our city’s tricentennial celebration in 2018, we should be a city where symbols inspire and include, not divide; and, a place a where we celebrate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, not death, war and slavery. Supremacy may be a part of our past, but it should not be part of our future.” However, New Orleans is literally built off its history. Everything from the French Square to the voodoo shows is from the slave period. All those Civil War nightly ghost shows pulls in a lot of revenue also! He said "we must reckon with our past" at the council meeting but what he really is doing is trying to run away from it and remove the images that says, "This is what happened..." He is doing what every politician before him did, ignore history and the causes of the issues we have today. It would be much easier to forget than to fix. He says we need "symbols [that] inspire and include, not divide; and, a place a where we celebrate life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness". Who can think of a better inspiration than Michael Luther King Jr.? Well a majority of streets and places named after him are about as opposite of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" that you can get. Hell, even I went to a school (in Louisiana) named after M.L.K., where blacks were allowed to bring guns and knives on grounds. I use to be bullied for being white (I am Native American but they thought I was a dark tanned white boy). When I brought this up to the Staff, the explanation was "Whitefolks deserve it since they enslaved blacks". Really? So it's ok for them to be racist but not me? ok I get it. So yea Positive Symbols teaches us that blacks are being protected by law to do whatever and the poor have no hope of getting anywhere in life. That alone should prove that either (a) Mayor Landrieu is completely ignorant or (b) out for his own agenda --which is what he's doing. According to a council woman investigations, he was already poised to disobey the votes and ready to tear down the statues in case they didn't vote on his side. Not only that but this little thing is causing him and the city more trouble. He has managed to tick off of at least 3 of the largest Historian organizations that deal with the War Between the States:
United Daughters of the Confederacy (which is one of the largest caretakers of memorials and graves) He has made enemies with Governor Bobby Jindal He has people who once loved New Orleans boycotting it. He has managed to get himself and the city sued for thinking about it! There are countries, like Germany (yes the one Hitler ruled) that have outlawed changing historical facts to suit biased point of views; this is known as Historical Negationism --Which our Media and schools love to do. (Old example: Boston Massacre; New example: Baltimore Riot" {couldn't find a video that compared the real VS media footage but this has a lot of references}). What would I propose they do? First off, better the education. America is sub-par when it comes to other 1st world countries in education. Louisiana is one of the worst in America pulling up at 48th place. I would also suggest making public policies and super enforcing them so that everyone is treated fairly no matter of race, sex, gender, age, or class. There should be a huge fine when these are broken. The Historians and Re-enactors' "Freedom of Speech" rights should be protected the same as everyone else's, so that they can accurately represent the history they represent. These guys are extremely important since they take their time (and sometimes risk their life) to bring to memory and teach the horrors of their times. The only way our problems will be fixed is when we actively work together to fix the causes that history is teaching us, not fight over personally "offenses". Unless, you won't history to just keep repeating like is has for other countries. |
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If a person of the past doing ANYTHING wrong is reason enough to tear down their memorial, then basically EVERY SINGLE politician needs to be erased. ALL Southern presidents until Lincoln were slave owners, progressives like Wilson were highly racists while FDR was downright fascist with his seizing of gold and internment of the Japanese. I get it, the Confederacy fought mostly to keep slavery. But trying to do away with the past altogether reminds me too much on 1984... I get it, the Confederacy fought mostly to keep slavery. But trying to do away with the past altogether reminds me too much on 1984... |
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The confederacy was a bad stain on American history, but it doesn't mean that we should be taking down anything confederate related. If the object is offensive in any way, then yes it should be taken down, but you shouldn't try to run from past mistakes and try to forget them as if they never existed. Sure we have text books and history teachers, but its in one ear and out the other. Honestly though, no one thinks about the events of the civil war and the confederacy in their free time. Statues, confederate related objects, can stand as a reminder to us of what to avoid in the future as to not repeat the past. Statues are out there for eveyone to see and most of the time they don't go away from natural circumstances. Books are read and forgotten. And that's my opinion! And that's my opinion! |
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Absolutely, the world is getting too sensitive. Honestly, this is, unfortunately, not a new thing. It's been happening for years, and it just keeps getting worse. I hate the hyper-sensitivity (and it's an insult to those who can actually be sensitive to stuff such as myself), I hate the political correctness, and I hate the so-called triggering to everything in sight that doesn't completely comply with what they want. What's more baffling about this situation itself is that demolishing statues and monuments won't change the past. What happened, happened. You can do all you want to your Hitler statues and other historical reminders, but the cold, hard truth is that the Holocaust really happened. People died, and wars were fought. These are irreversible facts. I suppose next we should start hunting down any history building that teaches people about the Civil War. Oh, wait, that's every class and a plethora of museums. Seriously, I don't know what their goal is here with removing statues. There are statues depicting bad moments throughout history, whether you like them or not. People are learning about these moments in school and out in the real world, whether you like them or not. This whole "triggered" stupidity is getting way out of hand, and I hope it stops soon, because political correctness is dangerous territory if we start rewarding it too much. I hate the hyper-sensitivity (and it's an insult to those who can actually be sensitive to stuff such as myself), I hate the political correctness, and I hate the so-called triggering to everything in sight that doesn't completely comply with what they want. What's more baffling about this situation itself is that demolishing statues and monuments won't change the past. What happened, happened. You can do all you want to your Hitler statues and other historical reminders, but the cold, hard truth is that the Holocaust really happened. People died, and wars were fought. These are irreversible facts. I suppose next we should start hunting down any history building that teaches people about the Civil War. Oh, wait, that's every class and a plethora of museums. Seriously, I don't know what their goal is here with removing statues. There are statues depicting bad moments throughout history, whether you like them or not. People are learning about these moments in school and out in the real world, whether you like them or not. This whole "triggered" stupidity is getting way out of hand, and I hope it stops soon, because political correctness is dangerous territory if we start rewarding it too much. |
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Mangepic : Good point: why be offended by OBJECTS? Besides pigeons need a place to... do their business. Of course, it public money is used for their making that is another story... SWTerra : at that point I would call it dementia. And yes, one can not change (objectively) the past. If anything, these monuments could serve as a reminder of past mistakes. Just like Auswitch: it serves as a dire reminder of the horrors humans are capable of and why we must NEVER repeat these mistakes. Same thing for the remainders of the Berlin Wall. SWTerra : at that point I would call it dementia. And yes, one can not change (objectively) the past. If anything, these monuments could serve as a reminder of past mistakes. Just like Auswitch: it serves as a dire reminder of the horrors humans are capable of and why we must NEVER repeat these mistakes. Same thing for the remainders of the Berlin Wall. |
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Janus: All of the statues, except the 'Battle of Liberty Place Obelisk', was paid for by private groups. Mangepic: The 'Battle of Liberty Place Obelisk' (Erected in 1932 --between WWI and WWII) originally contained a statement contributing the victory to the US government to white supremacy and allowing the white citizens to control the city. This isn't a huge deal during that time since, as per my above post, this was a belief held by the entire nation --not just the South-- and was at its strongest during the World Wars. In 1974, the City of New Orleans posted a 'disclaimer' stating that the white supremacy statement does not reflect current views of present day beliefs. In 1993 (23 years ago), the City of New Orleans, with approval of the major historian organizations, revised the Plaque and removed the racial statements and added "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future." The battle was actually a very bad riot gone wrong (imagine the Baltimore riots with guns and canons and you'll get a small taste). It was started over the fact that the Congress instated government (no one got to vote), was stealing private land and residencies for government use, public funds (they started the first lottery and said they were using it for state repairs but the officials were pocketing the money), blocking blacks from starting businesses (which profited the black L. Governor who was the richest in the state), and many other things --all illegal and against the Constitution. This was the last of many riots that were started over many different things. One riot even started when a Basically, the whites in Louisiana reacted the same way blacks and racial protesters are now --minus the guns and canons. So my question is: Why would the Mayor want to tear down a monument that literally says we messed up and need to learn from the mistake and is reminding us of the same stupid mistake we are making now --letting Racial hatred and sensitivity get in the way of real social improvement? All of the statues, except the 'Battle of Liberty Place Obelisk', was paid for by private groups. Mangepic: The 'Battle of Liberty Place Obelisk' (Erected in 1932 --between WWI and WWII) originally contained a statement contributing the victory to the US government to white supremacy and allowing the white citizens to control the city. This isn't a huge deal during that time since, as per my above post, this was a belief held by the entire nation --not just the South-- and was at its strongest during the World Wars. In 1974, the City of New Orleans posted a 'disclaimer' stating that the white supremacy statement does not reflect current views of present day beliefs. In 1993 (23 years ago), the City of New Orleans, with approval of the major historian organizations, revised the Plaque and removed the racial statements and added "In honor of those Americans on both sides who died in the Battle of Liberty Place ... A conflict of the past that should teach us lessons for the future." The battle was actually a very bad riot gone wrong (imagine the Baltimore riots with guns and canons and you'll get a small taste). It was started over the fact that the Congress instated government (no one got to vote), was stealing private land and residencies for government use, public funds (they started the first lottery and said they were using it for state repairs but the officials were pocketing the money), blocking blacks from starting businesses (which profited the black L. Governor who was the richest in the state), and many other things --all illegal and against the Constitution. This was the last of many riots that were started over many different things. One riot even started when a Basically, the whites in Louisiana reacted the same way blacks and racial protesters are now --minus the guns and canons. So my question is: Why would the Mayor want to tear down a monument that literally says we messed up and need to learn from the mistake and is reminding us of the same stupid mistake we are making now --letting Racial hatred and sensitivity get in the way of real social improvement? |
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WandererExiled : Then taking the "private" statues is completely wrong. As for you last question: I read the word "presentism" a few times already, and it would bring you the answer. People believe that whatever is not acceptable today must be completely rejected. It should not take long before people start protesting against Lincoln, who clearly wished for segregation. As for you last question: I read the word "presentism" a few times already, and it would bring you the answer. People believe that whatever is not acceptable today must be completely rejected. It should not take long before people start protesting against Lincoln, who clearly wished for segregation. |
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This steps over the line of the anti-Confederate sentiment. The Confederate flag was significant and justifiably offensive due to it representing more than just history. To many, it represents slavery and racism, and flying it is akin to flying the Nazi flag, albeit to quite a lesser degree. However, this does not mean that the Confederate flag should not be in history books. This does not in any way mean that we should sweep our past under the rug. To move forward, we must face our past transgressions, and learn from them. The statue of Robert E. Lee is important to history. Unlike a flag, which is a picture that represents a place and certain ideals, Robert E. Lee was a person who served in the war. The statue itself doesn't necessarily honor his accomplishments, nor does it put him in a dishonorable light. It merely acknowledges his significance, and the fact that he had a large impact on out country's history. The statue of Robert E. Lee is important to history. Unlike a flag, which is a picture that represents a place and certain ideals, Robert E. Lee was a person who served in the war. The statue itself doesn't necessarily honor his accomplishments, nor does it put him in a dishonorable light. It merely acknowledges his significance, and the fact that he had a large impact on out country's history. |
Hit O.P.S. syndrome on 4/2/11 at 5:14 p.m. |
Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'
Registered: 02-01-11
Location: Somewhere over the rainbow, where Hydreigons fly
Last Post: 1887 days
Last Active: 1881 days
01-13-16 08:06 PM
WandererExiled is Offline
| ID: 1236462 | 68 Words
POSTS: 183/221
POST EXP: 28476
LVL EXP: 200695
CP: 682.8
VIZ: 22209
The big court case over the Monuments is tomorrow at 9:30 am CDT. It'll be covered LIVE on the Internet. If no one post after me I'll Live Feed of Court case. It appears to not be an actual LIVE feed but rather just randomly posted sections of the records. Live Feed of Court case. It appears to not be an actual LIVE feed but rather just randomly posted sections of the records. |
The Nuetral Good (Choatic) Nomad |
Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'
Registered: 02-20-14
Last Post: 2457 days
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01-22-16 08:57 AM
jlove92 is Offline
| ID: 1239661 | 29 Words
POSTS: 290/880
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CP: 6193.2
VIZ: 247087
I think we're so caught up on "our rights." People have gotten too sensitive and ridiculous. I think we should not destroy history but continue to learn from it. |
Queen of Hearts |
Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'
Registered: 10-19-15
Location: Florida
Last Post: 1115 days
Last Active: 559 days
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