Hoochman : huh. according to you the argument is: BECAUSE.

~sakura~ : Metal_25: You two should continue that topic on my "Bible as the authoritative word of God" Thread.


Bobbynibbles : I would like to hear your argument on why God does not exist.

Bobbynibbles : No, his argument is he can't. But also, at the same time, you can't prove God doesn't exist. If you can prove, really prove, God doesn't exist, then you can disprove his argument.

Let me see. show me concrete, definable evidence that "god" exists. I want measurable proof. that is what most Atheists request.

Show me concrete definable evidence that God doesn't exist.

Hoochman : You cant prove god exists in concrete.

Here's 4 pieces of evidence to prove god doesn't exist:
- No Pictures
- No Audio
- No Video
- No physical evidence

All you got to prove god exists is testimonials in the bible which I should mention was NOT written by God.

"All you got to prove god exists is testimonials in the bible which I should mention was NOT written by God."

What does that have to do with whether or not God exists? Humans wrote down the words of the Bible yes.... but that fact doesn't preclude the idea that they could have been writing down the things God wanted them to write.

And I think I've seen a concrete God.... aren't there some in Rome somewhere? Or is that marble...

JigSaw : That isn't evidence against God, that just means we haven't found any yet.

Hoochman : That is my point, you have no evidence he exists 65 million years or however old this earth is and still no evidence except only the bible? If he is able to reveal himself to those in the bible why can't he do the same in todays world? Why make a bible when God could reveal himself any time he wants like he did to those people mentioned in the bible? Isn't that fishy to you at all?

geeogree : But its questionable whether he wanted them to write it in bible or not. They could be just saying that As far as god appearing on pancakes and marble I guess that can be considered "concrete" evidence

geeogree : I want to know why you would think that my argument that since we are well designed would not make it true that there has to be a designer.

JigSaw :

Bobbynibbles :
To be honest, it is a lot harder to prove that God does not exist than rather God does exists.

The statement "There is no God" is an absolute statement. Not only is it an absolute statement, it is also a negative absolute statement, and it is harder to prove that.

Here's an example. Let's say that I made a statement that "there is no gold in China." You need to go through all the jewelery stores, all the mines, turn every rock, etc, in order to prove your statement, which is impossible, because China is such a vast area, you would really need to look everywhere and know every place in order to prove your statement. However, if I said "there is gold in China," I don't need to look everywhere. All I have to do is to find a speck of gold in Chinese territory, and that proves my statement to be true. I don't need to have all knowledge of China to prove that.

In the same way, let's say that you have about 1% of all the knowledge in the universe (I don't know what you think of yourselves in terms of amount of knowledge, but I'd say we are all right around that fraction, probably less), do you think that you have the capability to state that there is no God, knowing that there is still 99% of knowledge that you have not encountered yet?

As for us Christians, we don't need to look everywhere to know that God exists. All we have to do is to find a little bit of evidence, and that would be enough to prove it. Not only do we have the Bible as proof of that (Please discuss this issue on the "Bible as the Authoritative Word of God" thread), but we have the creation itself, the handy work of a creator, to show that there must be a creator, and that you have no excuse.

"For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse." (Romans 1:20)

JigSaw : No, we don't have evidence He exists, He wants us to believe without evidence... but a lack of physical evidence is not proof that He does not exist. It's just proof that we haven't seen Him yet .

JigSaw : Here you guy's go again trying to guess Gods reason for giving his message through the bible instead if other means. How can a human hope to understand the aspects of a deity except that which the deity wants him to understand. Oh, and why would anyone of the people 65 million years ago have been able to conduct research in search of God, considering they were low tech?

Just thought I'd stick my nose in here because somebody asked why God didn't reveal himself except through the Bible.

Jesus addressed this when the Pharisees demanded a sign in the Gospel according to Matthew, chapter 16. he said:

When it is evening ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?
A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given unto it, but the sign of the prophet Jo'nas¹.

<sup>1 This is Jonah. He would explain it in another passage, saying "as Jo'nas was three days and three nights in the fish's belly, so shall the son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

Note that the italic text in that quote was added in from the original text. I point this out because sometimes these additions can change the meaning of a passage.

Anyway, people demand a sign that God exists but ignore the signs when they get them. We have seen sea shells on mountains, hinting at a global flood. This is ignored. So are eye witness accounts describing Jesus's resurrection and his appearances afterwards.

In Rome, the penalty for guards allowing a body to be stolen was death. However, the guards in charge of guarding Jesus's body were not killed. Why not? Perhaps because his body was not stolen but resurrected?

And archaeological evidence suggests that Jesus and his disciples were, in fact, in certain places at certain times performing certain actions, supporting the Bible. These are signs. Are you going to brush these off too?

I'm not saying these are entirely reliable or that there is no way sea shells could have ended up on mountains except through a global flood, again I just wanted to state my opinion just because someone asked.</sup>

there are several thing in the bible that have been proven in real life. for instance they found out a little while ago humans are made of some dirt. and a peice of noas ark was found on the mountain that the bible said it landed on or near i dont really remember.
also god created us so that we would choose to love him if we could prove he existed to every one then there wouldnt be much of a choice involved.
JigSaw : have you ever seen a million dollars?

Hoochman : If God was really powerful he could have made a video camera. But since god doesn't know the first thing about technology he uses his sheep to project and spread his word through one of the oldest forms of media known as the bible. Plus why would the people back then want to do research? They are the ones claiming they saw god with their own eyes and spoke to him. Man had to create technology on their own cause God knows technology will compromise him. With technology, you become god plain and simple.

bignatealpha : Sounds a lot like believing in Santa Claus or tooth fairy

play4fun : Your right about christians not looking around enough to believe in something, for one being raised as a christian I was fed nonsense from my family to believe in something I know doesn't exist. I find eating the skin and drinking the blood of christ a bit satanic. Nothing in the church is real is all pretend in my opinion, everything from the christs skin & blood, to the holy water, to the little donation basket that floats around in order to keep their product going. Nuns weren't too nice either they used torcher to teach people a lesson just like their symbol does (jesus being murdered on a cross).

If I were to say god exists, the only explanation for his existence is gaining back control of his sheep after he lost power of them when adam at the apple. God creates religion. God sets up kings who slaughter people and then he deposes them. God creates disasters to make his chances better at killing or rounding up the sheep. When enough sheep awake and go against god, doomsday happens and since he knows he doesn't have the power to control people anymore he will end it all. There is obviously a purpose for what was written in the bible. I doubt god is doing this for the hell of it he is doing it cause he made a mistake of allowing people free will. That is the only good reason to believe god existing.

drag00n365 : Have I seen 1 million dollars? No not up close in real life BUT it's money, and everyone knows money exists because they see it, earn it, its their whole purpose of life for crying out loud. That's like asking me if humans exist, you know the answer.

JigSaw : It sounds to me like you were raised Catholic.

There is no Christian tradition by which you are supposed to literally eat the body and blood of Christ. That's something the Catholic church made up to give priests more power. Specifically, if the priests could turn bread and wine into flesh and blood (which totally taste like bread and wine) then they gain more power over the people. It's corruption of the original message. That isn't Christian, and you're right not to believe in it.

Also, nowhere does it say anything about nuns or monks in the Bible. Holy water? How are we even supposed to get that? Humans can't make things "holy" and even if they could what's the point?

I've seen a lot of people turned away from believing in God because of their Catholic upbringing, but believe me when I say the Protestant vision of God isn't shrouded in blindness and traditions that don't mean anything. Protestants have no problem with you knowing exactly who God is or having direct contact with him. If you want to talk to God, go right ahead. You don't need a priest to do that for you.

JigSaw : Who said God doesn't know anything about technology?

Crawldragon : Who knows what I was raised as I was baptized as a child, and fed some balogi to believe in that is what matters. That is my point, its all fake. The skin, the blood, the water all fake. If people can't make things "Holy" explain why it's called "Holy Bible"? People made it not god. Talking to god is like talking to someone on a cell phone with a dead battery, no reply. And yes this was before I became a sinner

I said god doesn't know anything about technology, if he did he could have made it knowing full well of how useful it is in todays world.

JigSaw : My mother could clean my room for me, and yet she doesn't, even though it would be very helpful. Why? To teach me a skill. Same thing here. God wants us to learn things on our own, not just have Him hand stuff out to us.